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Topic 27 of 92: Geomagnetism

Tue, Feb 15, 2000 (15:17) | World Builder (MarciaH)
From Ley Lines to compasses the earth affects all creatures thereon.
235 responses total.

 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 1 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 15, 2000 (15:20) * 1 lines 
 
LeyLines, Feng Shui, polarization. Copper bracelets with magnets in them. Please let us discuss the topic from the lunctic fringe to the deadly seiously scademic.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 2 of 235: S B Robinson  (SBRobinson) * Tue, Feb 15, 2000 (16:52) * 4 lines 
 
OK, Marcia. I'm here... and i still have no idea what leylines are.
educate me please. :)




 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 3 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 15, 2000 (17:54) * 31 lines 
 
Welcome, EsBee. Happy to oblige even though Maggie is the one with them running near her house. Mind you, I deal with scientific and proven stuff usually, but this fascinates me. So, here goes: In the early 1920's Alfred Watkins wrote a book called The Old Straight Track. One day, when he was out riding his horse across the countryside, he paused on a hill. He noticed that the entire landscape was crossed by glowing network of lines standing out like golden wires, intersecting at the sites of churches, old stones and other places of traditional sanctity.

History of Ley Hunting
The story of how, in the early 20th century, a Hereford miller suddenly realised that all around the countryside ancient sites,
monuments, earthworks and other features could be shown to be arranged or placed in alignments, is a fascinating one. It
resulted in the development of a view of prehistoric society markedly different to that held previously.
The man was a native of Hereford, one Alfred Watkins. Having lived his whole life in the Herefordshire countryside, he
knew it and its people intimately, and was interested in the history and folklore of the county, much of it being learnt from
the village folk and farmers that he met. He was a leading figure in the local natural history society, the Woolhope Club, and
a well-known County Councillor and magistrate. One interest that was put to good use when he came to write up his
discovery was photography; Watkins was a pioneer in this field, inventing an exposure meter that was for forty-five years or
more universally recognised as the beginner's sure guide to correct exposure.
On 30th June 1921, Alfred Watkins was at Blackwardine, and was looking at a map with no particular object in mind when
he noticed an alignment that passed over some hilltops and various ancient sites. All of a sudden, there occurred what can
only be called a flash of insight or a revelation, and the features that he was so familiar with in the landscape became
linked in a whole system. Alien Watkins in a biography of his father describes how his father's mind was "...flooded with a
rush of images forming one coherent plan. The scales fell from his eyes and he saw that over many long years of
prehistory, all trackways were in straight lines marked out by experts on a sighting system. The whole plan of the Old
Straight Track stood suddenly revealed".

Alfred Watkins later described this plan:
Imagine a fairy chain stretched from mountain peak to mountain peak, as far as the eye could reach, and paid
out till it touched the high places of the earth at a number of ridges, banks and knowls. Then visualise a mound,
circular earthwork, or clump of trees, planted on these high points, and in low points in the valley, other mounds
ringed with water to be seen from a distance. Then great standing stones brought to mark the way at intervals,
and on a bank leading up to a mountain ridge or down to a ford the track cuts so deep so as to form a guiding
notch in the skyline as you come up. In a bwlch or mountain pass the road cut deeply to show as a notch afar
off. Here and there, and at two ends of the way, a beaconfire used to lay out the track. With ponds dug on the
line, or streams banked up into "flashes" to form reflecting points on the beacon track so it might be checked
when at least once a year a beacon was fired on the traditional day. All these works exactly on the sighting line...



 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 4 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 15, 2000 (18:01) * 20 lines 
 
They were called "ley" (pronounced lee) lines because they passed through so many villages with names ending in "ley" indicative only that the Danes had names the place long before.

There are also E line around the entire earth:
http://www.surreycmc.gov.uk/outreach/roundwld.htm
E-line round the world!
When plotted on a globe, the E-line goes through the immediate areas of some very significant places. One is Mount
Everest, the highest mountain in the world. Its Tibetan name "Chomolungma" means "Goddess mother of the world".
Crossing the equator, the line goes right through the middle of Australia, and seems to go through the location of Ayers
Rock. To the local tribes of Australian aborigines, Ayers Rock is a mount of the gods, totally enveloped in legends and
myths. Caves, shelters and other minor features of the Rock are associated with memories of cultural heroes of the Dream
Time, and sacred rites continually make this time operative in the present. The first and last rays of the sun seem to set the
rock on fire with spectacular colour changes, and even for white Australians a trip there takes on the dimension of a
pilgrimage.
The line continues through the southern tip of South Island, New Zealand, then swings north again to go through the area of
the famous Lines of Nazca in Peru. Lines run with bullet-like straightness across the pampa for mile after mile, and can
only be appreciated properly from the air. A number of patterns and shapes are among the lines, including birds and
spiders.





 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 5 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 15, 2000 (23:42) * 1 lines 
 
Ok all you leyline followers. I'm gonna go hunt you a map so we can all follow them.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 6 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 15, 2000 (23:54) * 8 lines 
 


The E-line, which we had been following across Surrey and Kent, goes through the chalk figure of the Giant, near Cerne
Abbas when extended westwards. We found the line as wide and powerful as usual, much wider than this line plotted by
Eileen on the aerial photograph which appeared in "The Ley Hunter's Companion" and "The Ley Guide", by Paul
Devereux, which represents its centre. Note however that it skirts the Trendle (or Frying Pan) earthwork near the Giant. The
real line would take in the whole of the Trendle. The other line is the one found by Paul Devereux.



 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 7 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 15, 2000 (23:56) * 2 lines 
 
This map shows the Eline and the euy ines they were following in the comments above:



 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 8 of 235: Moon Dreams  (Moon) * Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (08:50) * 5 lines 
 
Fascinating Marcia, thanks!

I have just returned from Santiago de Compostela, Spain (where the Apostle St. James is buried). As you know there is the famous pilgrimage from Lourdes to Santiago which pilgrims have been doing since the Crusades. These pilgrims all travel with a scallop shell which they hold towards the Sun when the Sun is at a certain angle and a line appears from the light. It deliniates the Western line that takes them to Santiago. Botticelli knew of this when he painted Venus on the scallop shell.

These lines are also the ones that birds follow during their migrations. Homing pigeons have been very useful in times of war because of it as well.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 9 of 235: Moon Dreams  (Moon) * Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (10:48) * 5 lines 
 
Here is a link with the info.:

http://www.iranon.org/jacobeo/en/index.htm




 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 10 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (11:32) * 1 lines 
 
Moon, thanks! Indeed, these lines of magnetism do exist. Thanks for pointing out a very old and very verifiable one.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 11 of 235: Maggie  (sociolingo) * Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (16:30) * 1 lines 
 
Mmm thanks for creating this Marcia. The info is fascinating. Apparently most of our (English) really old churches are built on ley lines. There is certainly something going on and I suspect that there is a rational explanation if we but knew.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 12 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (17:33) * 1 lines 
 
Mayhap we need to learn the knowledge we have forgotten...It is fascinating!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 13 of 235: Cheryl  (CherylB) * Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (17:50) * 1 lines 
 
I know zip about this topic, but here goes: It concerns the magnetic lines and water, lots of water, i.e., the Pacific Ocean, how did the Polynesians and Melanesians ever find those islands in all that watery expanse? Granted New Zealand is pretty big, but some of the islands the settled are literally tiny specks of land. Did they just set out and hoped they hit land before their supplies ran out? Did they follow birds? Or did they somehow discern oceanic ley lines?


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 14 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (18:10) * 3 lines 
 
The Vikings used polarizing sunstones to keep them on course. The Polynesians used the Sun in the day and stars by night and during storms tried to keep on course by lashing the rudder in place. They reinact this epic expansion almost yearly. Please check this url http://www.kitv.com/Voyage.html

It is graphics intensive and takes a while to download but it tells the story better than I could. Will hunt for more things from the Polynesian Voyaging Society, the parent group of these voyages. Thanks for bringing it up.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 15 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (18:13) * 2 lines 
 
This link is even better: The Polynesian Voyaging Society has maps and all sorts of good information on the voyage underway even as wel write:
http://leahi.kcc.hawaii.edu/org/pvs/


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 16 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (21:37) * 7 lines 
 
this is way cool. do the ley lines cross through easter island as well?

oh, and the giant is fascinating. i watched a show about that on discovery. it's amazing how big he really is!

and the spiders and such are equally as fascinating. suppose we link this topic with physical phenomenon in paraspring?

(and how did you get your globe to show up?)


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 17 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Wed, Feb 16, 2000 (22:32) * 4 lines 
 
The E line does. Gotta post a E line map when I find one. I think we need tolink it but since this is already established, it will create a new one on your conference just as collecting rocks and Jurassic Park did here.

My globe on the cover page? I discovered it was in the cfconfig (hit the you are host in this conf to get there). Scroll down till you hit the big empty
boxes in which we write commands. I found the /~cfadm file which had the globe in it and since I had downloaded it my own files, I ftp'd it to my /marcia files then went to the web got the location of the globe went back to that box and pasted the new address and deleted the old one. Hit the "save this file" or whatever it says..and voila! Need help? I can get into your cfconfig too and help you!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 18 of 235: Moon Dreams  (Moon) * Thu, Feb 17, 2000 (08:12) * 1 lines 
 
Now you have me wondering about the Bermuda Triangle and the magnetic force found there. Is it also on one of these lines?


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 19 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Thu, Feb 17, 2000 (12:11) * 1 lines 
 
There are several of these "triangles" around the world, and they are, as I recall, considered "magnetic anomolies." Let me to some research and get back to you. Thanks for bringing it up.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 20 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Thu, Feb 17, 2000 (12:41) * 12 lines 
 
Two of the several theories of the Bermuda Triangle
from:http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/warminster/167/theori.html

Theory #5 - Boom!
This is a theory by the US Navy. The investigation centers on the possibility of electro-magnetic gravitational and atmospheric disturbances that might be possible for disintegrating craft. The Lost Patrol reported seeing a large ball of fire in the skies. Could 5 planes collide and then joined by a sixth?
The investigation believes that the fireball was could have been created by the impact of the patrol and it's rescue ship with a disintegrating electro-magnetic force.

Theory #6 - Magnetic North
This is one of the most famous Bermuda Triangle theories. It has basis on the following (high school student)physics:
A compass DOES NOT always point to the true north but rather to the magnetic north. This phenomenon is referred to as compass variation. As a sailor or pilots circumnavigates the earth this variation changes, at times as much as
20 degrees. The navigator must always compensate for this error he may find himself far from where he thinks he is. One interesting note (that forms the basis for this theory) is that there are two places that point to the magnetic north: the Bermuda Triangle and the Devil's Sea area. There have been reports of pilots saying that they were confused as to direction. A typical example is the reply from Lt. Charles Taylor on Flight 19 when he was asked by the radio tower
as to his position. His reply was "We are not sure... We seem to be lost..", then a few minutes later "We cannot be sure which way is west... everything is wrong... strange... we cannot be sure of any direction." Or could this simply be a disorientation in a man's own mind? Hard to say.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 21 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Thu, Feb 17, 2000 (20:51) * 1 lines 
 
hmmmm..... (about linking it with physical phenom)


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 22 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Thu, Feb 17, 2000 (20:57) * 1 lines 
 
Yup, and I cannot do it until I can get in there via telnet (of which they supposedly have allowed Terry one account - but I see 4 logins via telnet) I tried to telnet in from Hawaii on Line and did. But, when I try to login, I get the usual "login invalid." Either we will have to wait for one of them to do it or wait till Terry finds a way to grant me telnet access to do it myself. *sigh*


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 23 of 235: MarkG  (MarkG) * Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (06:16) * 1 lines 
 
I believe certain points on the Earth have been discovered where in a range of about 200 yards, a compass needle will point south, for reasons that are not clear to the scientists who have tested this. From memory (I read this article years ago) one spot is in the Arizona desert, and five such spots have been claimed in mainland USA. The Bermuda Triangle could have been providing (maybe only temporarily?) a larger form of such a phenomenon, I suppose.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 24 of 235: Moon Dreams  (Moon) * Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (08:16) * 3 lines 
 
(Wolf), (about linking it with physical phenom)

This topic gets better and better. That is a great idea. I hope you are able to crack that tel net access, Marcia.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 25 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (12:10) * 4 lines 
 
Mark, you are correct...those magnetic anomolies do it every time. Whenever I flew to Britain over the pole I hung a floating compass from the tray in front of me and watched it wander out of control for 5 hours as we were near the north pole. It must have been very difficult to navigate in the early days. Little wonder the early Norsemen used polarizing stones to set their course.
I'll put the anomolies on my "look up" list.

Moon, it will happen...just have to wait till Terry gets the Telnet accounts figured out or someone has the time to do it.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 26 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (14:46) * 2 lines 
 
Woo Hoo, Wolfie, we are linked by the magic of our personal magician *grin*
*Hugs*


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 27 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (15:04) * 1 lines 
 
this is great!!! thanks magic man!! *hugs*


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 28 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (15:32) * 22 lines 
 
Anne Hale promised to post in here but until she gets around to doing so I shall post some things she sent me about ley lines in UK were she grew up:

I shall if you
give me the name of the topic post some more stuff on Ley lines - I visited
once during my studies of the subject an Iron Age Fort on top of the North
Downs near Leith Hill - the highest point in the South of England all of
965feet!! The interest is that 9 parishes met at that point - all finishing
in a narrow point and radiating out into the flat lands below. The whole
area around my home town is so ancient. Ashtead was a small Roman village
with a tile factory, my home town Leatherhead was called Leddrede at one
point in time and the historical society there has much to offer - maybe I
will check to see if it is on the net. Boxhill of Emma fame too has some
very interesting history - a man was buried upside down at the top many,
many years ago. The walkway along the White Downs just a mile or two away
from Boxhill is certain to contain Ley Lines - or at least that is what we
believed when we travelled along it.
my stamping ground is Surrey, Hampshire and
Sussex and sometimes Kent. Denis' home town Ammanford in Dyfed has some
rather scary standing stones - you get the strangest feeling there.
I will try to get him to talk on the Ammanford Standing stones -
they are in a circle and of course his part of Wales is full of druidical
places. They are still Welsh speaking there and sometimes quite fey



 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 29 of 235: Cheryl  (CherylB) * Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (16:36) * 3 lines 
 
Marcia, thanks for the Polynesian Voyaging Society links. Navigation by using astronomical bodies, shows a rather high degree of cultural sophistocation. I took an anthropology class which compared and contrasted 3 highly developed pre-literate societies: the Buganda of East Africa, the Tahitians, and the Hawaiians. The class did not touch on navigation though. I'm still curious if magnetism had some play in Polynesian navigation.

The Giant must have been a bit of a shock to Victorian tourists. Is there another Giant (Rude Man) in Wiltshire, near the Uffingtion Horse and Stonehenge? Also what is the relationship of ley lines to prehistoric stone constructions,i.e., Stonehenge, Avebury, Carnac (Kerrec) in Brittany, and the strange stone constructs on Malta.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 30 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (16:44) * 3 lines 
 
Ah, now you are getting to my most favorite subject - Things Megalithic. They Are stone, after all! More on this in a moment...

If you scroll down on the Poly Voyaging Soc site you will see the link to the Hawaiian Star chart by which they navigated. It is difficult to use magnetism over that much water. I will check it out, but I think they did not use it. They had NO iron whatever!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 31 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (16:49) * 2 lines 
 
Oh, yes! The Victorians "modified" the giant and it was only through modern techniques that the original specifics were re-discovered. However, his 12'
(3.65 M) long "member" is longer than originally. It now extends to his navel which it did not originally. There are several fake giants (and white horses, as well), but there is a red giant (have to look this one up for you and get back to you - I have dozens of books on these subjects!)now densely overgrown in the woods in mid-England.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 32 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (22:00) * 6 lines 
 
Lest you think all Ley Lines are in every place but USA, check this Seattle, Washington map. A larger map is available http://www.geo.org/qa.htm#tof




Has anyone here read about Rennes-le-Chateau? Want to discuss that, as well?


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 33 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (22:14) * 17 lines 
 
From http://www.geo.org/dowse1.htm#4

Primary water is a
totally below-ground hydrological cycle and therefore is not affected by drought.
Primary water is found at most ancient monuments and temples. Usually, there is a water
dome or even a well or a spring at the center of the monument. A water spring, the place
where water is available for use from the surface, is a natural spot for building a sacred
place. By marking the site, or distinguishing it from other places, the monument becomes
"holy ground."
The close relationship of water lines and springs with ancient monuments was established
by M. Louis Merle and Reginald Allender Smith in the 1930s. Both these men were
dowsers, or diviners of water; they could locate underground streams and springs without
using scientific instruments. Merle established that ancient monuments were situated over
the crossing of underground streams. Smith went further to say that springs are constantly
present at the centers of stone circles and earthworks. This discovery indicated that the
selection of sites for ancient monuments was not arbitrary, but a conscious decision based
upon the presence of underground water.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 34 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 18, 2000 (23:11) * 1 lines 
 
How about sacred geometry...?


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 35 of 235: Moon Dreams  (Moon) * Sat, Feb 19, 2000 (13:31) * 10 lines 
 
Lest you think all Ley Lines are in every place but USA, check this Seattle,
Now, that might explain the the phenomena known as Bill Gates. ;-)

This discovery indicated that the selection of sites for ancient monuments was not arbitrary, but a conscious decision based upon the presence of underground water.
That is exactly what happened in Bath, when the Romans settled there, they chose it because of the hot springs. The Giant is on the smaller road on the way back to London from Bath which we did and I can tell you it is an amazing site to behold.

Has anyone here read about Rennes-le-Chateau?
It rings a bell, Marcia, please tell us more. :-D




 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 36 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Sat, Feb 19, 2000 (14:12) * 5 lines 
 
Aloha Moon...thanks for your comments. I knew there was a good explanation of the phenomenon of Bill Gates. *lol*

You are right about Bath (the origin of that "Saturday night ritual" in so many cowboy movies). In the Spring, there are still well-dressing festivities all over Britain, all of which have some ritual significance. Some really popular ones have been Christianized (as has everything else at Glastronbury.)

Rennes-le-Chateau starred prominently in the book Holy Blood Holy Grail and deals with the Merovingian dynasty in France, the Knights Templar and ultimately with one-world government. The best part of it deals with sacred geometry and ancient things in the landscape along with the best history of early France I have ever read. The book's conclusions are odd at best, but it was intriguing enough that I bought its successor and a third by one of the same authors!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 37 of 235: lidya maccarthy  (livamago) * Sat, Feb 19, 2000 (19:43) * 1 lines 
 
Congratulations, my dear! This is a great topic, and you are a vast source of knowledge, as usual.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 38 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Sat, Feb 19, 2000 (19:54) * 1 lines 
 
Thank you, and *hugs* for saying so. I always welcome a fellow adventurer into the ancient and esoteric. Please stick around and post.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 39 of 235: Cheryl  (CherylB) * Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (14:49) * 5 lines 
 
I come here to be informed. As I said I know zip about this subject. Okay, I do know a little, thanks to those posting here. Please let me clarify on the subjects of the Polynesians and magnetism, I thought it might have something to do with birds. Since birds go on massive migrations using magnetic fields, among other things to guide them. That's the theory anyway. But you're right Marcia, it's pretty tough to use magnetism if you have no iron and there's that much water.

Wasn't Bath a holy place to the Celtic inhabitants of Britain before the Romans arrived? They are the hottest springs in Europe. Was Aquae Sulis the Roman name for Bath?

Please let us know what you uncover on the Red Giant.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 40 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (15:31) * 6 lines 
 
Polynesian Navigation is ongoing as we speak as the Hokule'a sails for Hilo on the return voyage. Check it out at the Polynesian Vpoyaging Society website. Nearing Islands the Hawaiians used birds for homing in on the terra firma. That and clouds forming over mountain peaks and glows from eruptions.

Any water source in Europe has been revered from time immemorial. In fact, the source of the Seine was a much visited shrine of pilgrimage. Thermal springs were more revered - especially if they were the healing sort. Bath under various names was revered way back into pre-history. Chartre Cathedral was built on a "pagan" shrine so popular to the mother goddess that the only way to stop them coming to visit it was to put the cathedral to a new god over it. Of course, during a later synod, they incorporated the mother goddess concept into
Christianity as the Virgin Mary. (Don't flame my posts - look it up. It was NOT my doing!)

Have discovered the red giant. Everyone knows of the Uffington White Horse...the oldest extant hill figure in Britain. There was supposed to be a lost red horse near Tysoe near Banbury, Warwickshire. Whilst hunting for the horse, S. G. Wildman discovered not a horse, but a whole collection of other figures - what appeared to be a human figure 160'(47 M) in height wielding a whip or rope; a bird with its head pointing upward; behind them was an unidentifiable animal. Below them all was the figure of another animal perhaps 300' (51.44 M) long. They were never excavated, but on contemporary pictures, others were able to discern them from oblique angles. (from "Mysterious Britain" by J&C Bord)


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 41 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (15:33) * 1 lines 
 
Oh, and you are correct about Aquae Sulis being the Roman name for Bath. Translated, it is water of the Silures, a powerful Keltic tribe in the area.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 42 of 235: Cheryl  (CherylB) * Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (15:34) * 1 lines 
 
Chartres was very much an important site to the goddess. Interestingly, until well into the 19th century the moon was referred to as "Notre Dame" in very rural parts of France.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 43 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (15:40) * 1 lines 
 
Very interesting! (...and how did that 's' get left off of my Chartres?!) Underneath this civilized and regimented modern facade we wear are the real roots of our knowledge of the earth and what made it special and how to be in tune with it. I hope we can tune in again before all signs and lore are gone and forgotten. However, I hasten to add that the book I cited is of what the Archaeology establishment considers "Lunatic Fringe" and a lot of things they espouse is a bit "out there."


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 44 of 235: Maggie  (sociolingo) * Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (15:46) * 28 lines 
 
I posted this in my Mali topic and Marcia has asked for it to be posted here as well. Comments?

Dogon Theory of Creation

The Dogon people are an indigeous tribe who occupy a region in Mali, south of the Sahara Desert in Africa.
They live in the Homburi Mountains near Timbuktu.
They are believed to be of Egyptian descent.
After living in Libya for a time, they settled in Mali, West Africa, bringing with them astronomy legends dating from before 3200 BCE.
In the late 1940s, four of their priests told two French anthropologists of a secret Dogon myths about the star Sirius (8.6 light years from the earth). The priests said that Sirius had a companion star that was invisible to the human eye. They also stated that the star moved in a 50-year elliptical orbit around Sirius, that it was small and incredibly heavy, and that it rotated on its axis.
Sirius - which we now call Sirius A - was not seen through a telescope until 1862 and was not photographed until 1970.

The Dogon name for Sirius B (Po Tolo) consists of the word for star (tolo) and "po," the name of the smallest seed known to them. By this name they describe the star's smallness -- it is, they say, "the smallest thing there is." They also claim that it is "the heaviest star," and white. The Dogon thus attribute to Sirius B its three principle properties as a white dwarf: small, heavy, white.

They go on to say that it has an is elliptical orbit, with Sirius A at one foci of the ellipse (as it is), that the orbital period is 50 years (the actual figure is 50.04 +/- 0.09 years), and that the star rotates on its own axis (it does). The Dogon also describe a third star in the Sirius system, called "Emme Ya" ("Sorghum Female"). In orbit around this star, they say, is a single satellite. To date, Emme Ya has not been identified by astronomers.
In addition to their knowledge of Sirius B, the Dogon mythology includes Saturn's rings, and Jupiter's four major moons. They have four calendars, for the Sun, Moon, Sirius, and Venus, and have long known that planets orbit the sun.
The Dogon say their astronomical knowledge was given to them by the Nommos, amphibious beings sent to Earth from Sirius for the benefit of mankind. The name comes from a Dogon word meaning "to make one drink," and the Nommos are also called Masters of the Water, the Monitors, and the Teachers.

Nommos
The Dogon tells the legend of the Nommos, awful-looking beings who arrived in a vessel along with fire and thunder.
After they arrived here - they put out a reservoir of water onto the Earth then dove into the water.
There are references in the oral traditions, drawings and cuneiform tablets of the Dogons, to human looking beings who have feet but who are portrayed as having a large fish skin running down their bodies.
The Nommos were more fishlike than human, and had to live in water. They were saviors and spiritual guardians: "The Nommo divided his body among men to feed them; that is why it is also said that as the universe "had drunk of his body," the Nommo also made men drink. He gave all his life principles to human beings."
The Nommo was crucified and resurrected and in the future will again visit the Earth, this time in human form. Later he will assume his amphibious form and will rule the world from the waters.
Dogon mythology is known only by a number of their priests, and is a complex system of knowledge. Such carefully guarded secrets would not be divulged to friendly strangers very easily. If the star Emme Ya is eventually discovered in the Sirius system, this would give considerably weight to the Dogon's story.
The Nommos, who could live on land but dwelled mostly in the sea, were part fish, like merfolk (mermaids and mermen). Similar creatures have been noted in other ancient civilizations -- Babylonia's Oannes, Acadia's Ea, Sumer's Enki, and Egypt's goddess Isis. It was from the Nommos that the Dogon claimed their knowledge of the heavens.
The Dogon also claimed that a third star (Emme Ya) existed in the Sirius system. Larger and lighter than Sirius B, this star revolved around Sirius as well. And around it orbited a planet from which the Nommos came. (Sirius A).




 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 45 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Sun, Feb 20, 2000 (15:55) * 1 lines 
 
Thanks Maggie! I appreciate that. Shoulda named this topic "Earth Mysteries" but I think we can cover that under the more scholarly guise, anyway. Good stuff we have going in here!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 46 of 235: Moon Dreams  (Moon) * Mon, Feb 21, 2000 (11:51) * 18 lines 
 
(Cheryl), I thought it might have something to do with birds. Since birds go onmassive migrations using magnetic fields, among other things to guide them.
That's the theory anyway. But you're right Marcia, it's pretty tough to use
magnetism if you have no iron and there's that much water.


It is the knowledge of generations that resonate in birds. I
suggest reading Rupert Sheldrake. His New Science of Life and The
Rebirth of Nature. For the explanations.

(Maggie), The Nommo was crucified and resurrected and in the future
will again visit the Earth, this time in human form.


And was he in Israel at the time? Very interesting, Maggie, thanks for posting it here. :-)

They go on to say that it has an is elliptical orbit, with Sirius A at
one foci of the ellipse (as it is), that the orbital period is 50 years
(the actual figure is 50.04 0.09 years),


The Catholic Church has special celebrations for the reconciliation ritual every 50 years too, the year 2000 is one of them. I wonder if there is a connection. The is a private library at the Vatican which is supposed to have the texts to so many mysteries. I would love to see these books.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 47 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Mon, Feb 21, 2000 (12:08) * 1 lines 
 
Moon, if you ever get into that library, count on my being right behind you in felt slippers so we are not overheard. That Vatican also has the largest collection of Pronography, I understand. Fascinating!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 48 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Mon, Feb 21, 2000 (19:58) * 1 lines 
 
this is really interesting!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 49 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Mon, Feb 21, 2000 (21:01) * 1 lines 
 
Wolfie - go check what I just posted in Geo 17. Archaeology. Stone circles. This is where these two topics intersect. Thanks for being interested. It is a cool topic and goes as well with your Paraspring conference as here, don't you think?!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 50 of 235: Cheryl  (CherylB) * Tue, Feb 22, 2000 (17:13) * 3 lines 
 
The merfolk or amphipious beings are noted in several belief systems and folklore, but so are winged beings, what many people consider angels.




 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 51 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 22, 2000 (18:34) * 1 lines 
 
Then there are the dragons/worms which inhabited so much of Europe. Somewhere lost in the dim past is the truth back of this lore. And, it is another of my passions.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 52 of 235: Cheryl  (CherylB) * Tue, Feb 22, 2000 (18:48) * 1 lines 
 
That would bring up another subject: metamorphs. Basically it's the werewolf myth, which is pretty much universal in some form or other. It's not always wolves people turn into, depending on the culture in can be bears, foxes, leopards, jaquars, or even coyotes. Interesting that the animals involved are predators. Okay, bears are omnivores and coyotes will scavenge if they have to.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 53 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 22, 2000 (19:08) * 4 lines 
 
This is where the linked-to-paraspring comes in. Wolf, are you listening? I believe she has werewolves on her conference:
http://www.spring.net/yapp-bin/restricted/read/paraspring/7/new

I think we're gonna overlap a bunch but that is good...each conference seems to reach different readers. About those morphs, is that how totem animals arose? I am fascinated and know just about nothing about them. Does it involve Shamanism?


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 54 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Tue, Feb 22, 2000 (19:33) * 3 lines 
 
don't totem poles depict territories and families?

we can link the morphism to indians and their animal spirits. without getting high, i'd like to know how to find out what animal my spirit favors. it would be interesting and insightful.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 55 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 22, 2000 (19:41) * 1 lines 
 
Hawaiians were really big on household or family gods. These were often shark or turtle or porpoise. Wolf, you are either lupine or delphine connected, it would seem. I seem to be connected to hard stony objects *grin*


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 56 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 22, 2000 (19:53) * 1 lines 
 
This part of the esoterica in which I am a novice. Please educate!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 57 of 235: Maggie  (sociolingo) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (01:57) * 1 lines 
 
This also links to 'universal stories', in the sense of repeating themes in oral literature. I suppose that corresponds with myths and legends, but I tend to look at them from a linguistic point of view.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 58 of 235: World Builder  (MarciaH) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (10:50) * 2 lines 
 
I study them for the knowledge behind them and that takes me into linguistics to find out exactly the words used early on before the meaning got lost in vernacular. It is difficult in the utmost to find these early forms, however.
What choice goodies have you discovered?


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 59 of 235: Maggie  (sociolingo) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (13:01) * 1 lines 
 
Mine are collected Mandinka stories. Will Start again in Mali. I have one good one somewhere if I can find it.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 60 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (17:12) * 2 lines 
 
ok, to the person responsible for making this place look spiffy,

HUGS


thank you thank you thank you and i love the new lines!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 61 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (17:29) * 1 lines 
 
I was just going to compliment you on them. Hmmm...there is something about you I just am lacking. Topics on your conference - none on mine...Perhaps I do not yet deserve them. *sniffle* (For those wondering where the bars are, they are on Paraspring conference to which this is linked.)


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 62 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (19:41) * 1 lines 
 
? you lost me, sweetie!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 63 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Wed, Feb 23, 2000 (21:09) * 1 lines 
 
Nah! I was just being a spoiled child (did not get the chance as a little kid). I was just noticing who created your topics and who created mine. *sigh* I seem to be the lone stranger in Geo whereas you had the master creating in yours...(see, told ya! spoiled child...now I'm gonna behave...) *hugs*


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 64 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (11:48) * 3 lines 
 
oh! is that all? *grin*

k, they had a show last night on the travel channel (because of miracles like satellite tv, i was unable to watch the grammy's as originally planned) about the giant, the spider, the hummingbird, and did you know about the alien man waving to the sky? there were two shows, one was about the rocks and how they were built. pyramids, the rows and rows of pillars all facing the same direction, etc. very very neat. even heiroglyphics contained people in small capsules like they were flying. way cool. unfortunately, i was way too preoccupied with a craft project to pay complete attention so i hope they show it again.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 65 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (12:45) * 7 lines 
 
Oh, Wolfie, we got stuff time-delayed through the miracle of modern technology so you had to live in a vacuum not to know who wom before it even started...so I spent the evening with Geo and interesting people. (Yup! that's all - mostly...feeling wiser and a little foolish this morning *grin*)

I did not see the program you mention last night, but it sounds suspiciously like some I have seen produced by sensationalists. One giveaway is the people they use for experts. Graham Hancock is great for casual reading, but he is no scientific and objective archaeologist who reports only certainties and not conjectures. I watched part of one I had seen before about the Mayan sarcophagus with the "space man" on the lid. That was on last night and I turned it off and came back to the monitor. *sigh* Btw, I have three books by Hancock and they are fascinating. But, know the facts before you start reading.






 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 66 of 235: Cheryl  (CherylB) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (17:17) * 2 lines 
 
My last comment about metamorphs on this board. I would like to apologize to all those of Irish and or Scottish ancestry, and to my own Scotch-Irish forebearers. (I am from central PA, where almost everybody as some German and Scotch-Irish blood.) I didn't mention selkies or horse fairies. The Selkie were the seal people, they came ashore doffed there sealskins and became people. A really charming film dealing with this legend is "The Secret of Roan Inish". The horse fairies were horses and ponies that could become human. So not all the animals were predators. Seals are predatory if you're a fish, but horses are herbavores.
Now back to geomagnetism.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 67 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (18:34) * 2 lines 
 
Piskies (yes, spelled right) are Cornish fairies. Just before they disappear altogether from human view they look like ants. it is Not a good idea to step on ants in Cornwall! (I am English/Scots-Irish/German. Join the crowd!)
Geomagnetism is all about other worldly stuff...after all, ley lines follow them, no?! And, where is the interface between the real world we see and the unseen world? It is very close to the surface in the Avalon/Glastonbury area...! Cheryl, you were right at home here with your post. *smile*


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 68 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Thu, Feb 24, 2000 (21:59) * 3 lines 
 
Geomagnetism and why it is a Good Thing:
Radiation from the sun is deadly stuff to living things and to communications (with which I am getting this information to you). Solar wind is deflected by the Earth's magnetism thusly:



 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 69 of 235: Moon Dreams  (Moon) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (09:02) * 5 lines 
 
Solar wind is deflected by the Earth's magnetism thusly:
What about the Ozone layer. Does it not help deflect the radiation from the Sun?
Might it also have a magnetic field?

In Ireland I always felt as if I were being watched by fairies, crazy but true. You could almost hear them wisper in the wind.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 70 of 235: Ginny  (vibrown) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (10:55) * 5 lines 
 
Nice graphic!

But the electro-magnetic field of earth doesn't deflect all the particles from the solar wind; if it did we'd never see auroras, right?

Interesting...I've never heard about the fairie legends before (other than Morgan Le Fey). Never heard of leylines before this topic, for that matter. What things I learn from this conference... :-)


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 71 of 235: Ginny  (vibrown) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (11:15) * 5 lines 
 
re: back a few posts

Marcia mentioned Rennes-le-Chateau and the book "Holy Blood Holy Grail".

I think I saw a program about this back when I had cable TV (must have been The Learning Channel or Discovery). It involved some theory about the descendants of Christ and the Knights Templars, but I don't remember the details. I do remember thinking it was very odd, and a bit "out there", but I am interested in hearing more about it. Can anyone post any info about this, or some good urls?


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 72 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (11:36) * 0 lines 
 


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 73 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (12:00) * 10 lines 
 
Geomagnetism: Better sources than I on this subject:
http://sec.gsfc.nasa.gov/
http://ub.nmh.ac.uk/
http://geomag.usgs.gov/

Another image for you to ponder:


Rennes-le-Chateau: more in next post...
If you do a web search you will find oodles of off-the-wall stuff...just like the book. But, it is a fascinating read.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 74 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (12:01) * 2 lines 
 
Let's try that image again...



 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 75 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (12:37) * 3 lines 
 
Rennes-le-Chateau: The best overview of Holy Blood Holy Grail is found at
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/metis.htm
Her website contains Steve Mizrach's discussion of the book, which is the best on the net. This URl is also part of the Rennes-le-Chateau webring. To me, the most fascinating stuff is not the Merovingian claim to have the blood of Jesus in their veins (thus divine) but the sacred geometry of the entire place and the connection with Poussin's Tomb at Arques painting The Shepherds of Arcadia


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 76 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (12:39) * 1 lines 
 
Oh yes, which brings us full circle because the Merovingians are part of the One world government of which the latter-day Knights Templar (only the best and brightest, not the rank and file...)and the Trilateralists are also part. Read that website and you will be amazed (forget the bogus religious stuff - that is ridiculous in any case!)


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 77 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (13:08) * 64 lines 
 
Today's Geomagnetism report from ARRL ( American Radio Relay League)
To give you some idea of what is happening out there right now...

Solar flux and sunspot activity were down last week, but heading
back up. Average solar flux for last week compared to the previous
week was down almost 4 points, and sunspot numbers were off about 28
points. The low point was Friday, February 18, when the three solar
flux measurements for the day were 139.6, 141.1 and 140.4. The noon
measurement of 141.1 is the official reading for the day. Solar
flux is expected to rise, with the projection for Friday through
Tuesday of 197, 197, 200, 200 and 204. Solar flux for the near term
is expected to peak around 205 on Wednesday or Thursday, March 1 and
2, then decline to below 170 by March 9, and bottom out near 130
around March 23 or 24.

Planetary A index has been rising, due to a well-placed coronal hole
streaming charged particles toward the earth. NASA has an
interesting article about this as well as a dramatic photo online at
http://www.spacescience.com/headlines/y2000/ast23feb_2.htm. Also
check http://www.spaceweather.com, which on Thursday had an article
about a gust of solar wind at 1430z on February 24.

The projected planetary A index for Friday through Tuesday is 20,
18, 15, 13 and 10. Conditions may be disturbed again around March 4
and 5, and fairly quiet between March 13-20. Based on the current
solar rotation, disturbed conditions may recur around March 22-23,
and possibly quiet conditions again around March 26-29, although
predictions that far in the future are more of a guess. These
projections are based upon sunspots and coronal holes moving across
the visible solar surface, as the sun rotates relative to earth
every 27.5 days. Various features grow and fade with time, and new
areas appear. Some are oriented toward earth and have a large
effect, while others do not.

The coronal hole that is causing the current geomagnetic disturbance
has been visible for the last seven solar rotations.

Doug Brandon, N6RT wrote to ask about the URL for Cary Oler's Solar
Terrestrial Dispatch web site, which seemed to disappear some time
back. Doug did some detective work, and found that it had moved.
The new site is at http://solar.spacew.com/.

George Jacobs, W3ASK has an interesting item in his propagation
column in the March issue of CQ Magazine concerning equinoctial
propagation. This is about the effect that occurs in spring and
fall seasons when the daylight distributed between the northern and
southern hemisphere is roughly equal, dependent on how close the
date is to the equinox. He says that during March intercontinental
openings on 160-30 meters should peak just before local sunrise and
again at local sunset. 20 meter openings should peak an hour or two
after sunrise and again for an hour or so after sunset. 17-6 meter
intercontinental openings should peak during daylight hours.
Signals on these upper bands are stronger toward the west around and
after sunset, while toward the east they are stronger before noon.
He notes that signals to the south are stronger after sunrise and
again late in the afternoon. W3ASK has a web site at
http://www.gjainc.com/.

Sunspot numbers for February 17 through 23 were 152, 146, 126, 131,
122, 129 and 155 with a mean of 137.3. 10.7 cm flux was 168.4
141.1, 144.8, 153.3, 152.1, 172.3 and 185.1, with a mean of 159.6,
and estimated planetary A indices were 6, 2, 4, 5, 15, 5 and 9, with
a mean of 6.6.



 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 78 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (19:08) * 1 lines 
 
last night, i watched a program about the pharoahs (and queen turned king) of egypt. it seems ramses (sp?) was the unnamed pharoah during the mass exodus of the israelites from egypt. he went one on one with God. it was equally as fascinating to learn of the "acting" ruler of egypt in place for her stepson who, by mutual agreement, took the throne and ceremonially called herself king and wore the pharoah's clothing and a beard. she accomplished many things that the male pharoahs could not or would not. after her stepson became pharaoh (upon her death) he decided that she should not be remembered and there was evidence of her name being removed from monuments. funny, she left a message that future generations would know she ruled egypt even though the people of egypt would try to eradicate her memory. i was totally fascinated with the whole thing. would love to visit egypt and see these things for myself.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 79 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Fri, Feb 25, 2000 (22:42) * 1 lines 
 
I watched that,as well. Most fascinating about the palace intrigues and the intricate marriages arranged with next of kin. They were not subtle aobut removing all traces of Hatshepsut from the heiroglyphs.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 80 of 235: Annette Mercer  (laughingsky) * Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (10:04) * 1 lines 
 
I had seen a similar story about that, a while back. Truly fascinating! Fortunatly for us, not everything about her was destroyed. Seems there is always some forgotten wall, pillar, etc. that reveals another wonderful and mysterious story!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 81 of 235: Gi  (patas) * Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (14:42) * 1 lines 
 
I agree that Hatshepsut is one of the most fascinating pharaohs. Her tomb is magnificent too (I want to see it sometime).


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 82 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Sat, Feb 26, 2000 (21:02) * 1 lines 
 
(me too...but perhaps in another life when I come back as an Archaeologist...)


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 83 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Sun, Feb 27, 2000 (18:21) * 3 lines 
 
Meanwhile...back at the possible ley-lines, please note the following map (also posted in Archaeology). Each little red dot is a stone circle or alignment




 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 84 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Sun, Feb 27, 2000 (18:22) * 3 lines 
 
That is a clickable map from one of the best resources online for things megalithic:
http://www.megalith.ukf.net/bigmap.htm



 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 85 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (09:07) * 1 lines 
 
kewl!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 86 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (10:49) * 1 lines 
 
It really is! Has anyone ever figured how to post a clickable map to another website. That would be REALLY Kewl!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 87 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (11:34) * 25 lines 
 
Hokule'a crew returns home tired but happy
By Leila Fujimori
A tired but happy Nainoa Thompson says it was a very special day.
After an eight-month voyage to Rapa Nui and back, Hokule’a is home.
Shanell Ching, navigator for the final leg of the journey, said, "It's an honor and a privilege to bring the
Hokule’a home."
The 32-year-old navigated the Polynesian sailing canoe, using only traditional methods, from Tahiti to
Hawaii in a record 21 days.
Hokule’a sailed into Kaunakakai Harbor tonight receiving a welcome of hula, chants and leis from
Molokai residents, as well as crew members' friends and family.
The 15 crew members first caught sight of landfall about 7:20 p.m. yesterday, when they spotted the
lights of Hilo.
The voyage to Rapa Nui signifies reaching the final and easternmost point in the Polynesian Triangle --
the migration routes of ancient Polynesian navigators.
On Oct. 8, Hokule’a arrived at Rapa Nui, or Easter Island, the most isolated and remote Polynesian
island.
Hokule’a will depart Molokai for Oahu on March 11, in time for a homecoming celebration at Kualoa
Park. The event will also mark the 25th anniversary of its launching.
The formal morning program will be followed by entertainment, educational activities, food and other
programs from noon to 5 p.m.
Ching said exceptional conditions allowed the Hokule’a to quickly sail through the doldrums, a region
known for dead calms and light breezes.
At times, however, Ching was challenged by rain swells and overcast skies that obscured the stars and
other celestial bodies used in navigation.



 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 88 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (11:38) * 1 lines 
 
One of my freinds has a son on the crew of the Hokule'a. She said the only modern convenience they had was a radio-phone. No watches, no calendars, nothing modern. When they called home they were forbidden to ask the day or time or anything else which the ancient Polynesians would not have known. They really DID do it the Old-Fashioned way...very old!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 89 of 235: Cheryl  (CherylB) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (15:43) * 1 lines 
 
Yes, it was a wonderful ocean voyage, although it did the virtual way. Thanks for the URL Marcia.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 90 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (15:48) * 1 lines 
 
oh, the Hokule`a is a ship! i was wondering there for a minute!! the only way to copy a clickable map is to do a "view source" and copy all the links over with it (i guess!)......


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 91 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Mon, Feb 28, 2000 (16:34) * 3 lines 
 
Yeah...then you duplicate someone else's website. That is a little too cheeky for even me to attempt - but I am sure you are right. I'll just use the URL and go there to do my clicking. I am just happy they put it on a transparent background. It does look lovely!

Glad you enjoyed the virtual voyage. I'll let you know when the next one goes!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 92 of 235: Ginny  (vibrown) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (00:19) * 5 lines 
 
Sounds kind of like the Kon-Tiki and Ra expeditions of Thor Heyerdahl. Hard to imagine anyone crossing the open ocean in a balsawood raft, and surviving!

I started looking at that Rennes-le-Chateau website you posted, Marcia. It sure sounds like the stuff I heard about on that TV show I saw a while back. That show did talk about some weird geometry and a painting. I assume it was the painting you mentioned. *Weird* stuff, but I haven't had time to read much of it, yet...

Did you say there is a modern day Knights Templars organization? Do they have any real ties to the historic Templars? How do the Rosicrucians relate to them? They always seemed like a pretty bizarre group, too.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 93 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (10:11) * 3 lines 
 
The modern-day Knights Templar are part of the Freemasons of today. I think there is no connection with Rosecrutions - at least when my father was a Mason.
Illuminati and the like are also suggested as connected in some way. Of this I know nothing other than what I have read by the disgruntled and the guessers.
Of course, when asked, any Freemason would categorically deny any association. but that may or may not be true, as well!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 94 of 235: Ginny  (vibrown) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (10:43) * 2 lines 
 
My father was also a Mason, but naturally he wouldn't tell me any of their secrets. Seems like another odd group, from the open ceremonies I was allowed to attend. My brother was also a Mason for a while, but he hated it and let his membership lapse.



 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 95 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (11:06) * 1 lines 
 
Until the 60'd happened and turned the world upside down, Masonic attachment was a form of prestige. I do not know if anything internal happened to them, but Kings and Presidents were all Masons. If you were a shaker or mover, it was expected of you. My father was not a joiner, but this one he took to heart and became a 33rd degress Master Mason eventually - about as high as you can go.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 96 of 235: Ginny  (vibrown) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (11:20) * 3 lines 
 
My brother felt the Masons were bigots and racists...maybe it was just the lodge he joined, but he felt it was part of the actual wording of the ceremonies.

I got the impressions that the Masons were once a "blue blood" sort of organization...had to be of a certain social standing, etc., to join.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 97 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (11:35) * 1 lines 
 
Oh, indeed...one had to have proven himself a man of worth usually self-made men were most admired, but inherited status was also good (as in Kings). They are elitist, but not necessarily snobs. Shriners do a tremendous amount of good works but that branch did not appeal to my serious-minded father. All you have to be is free and accepted and believe in God. Blacks and Jews and all others that I know of were welcome. Perhaps it has changed and people are reading things into the wording of the degrees and ceremonies which meant different things in another era. I truly do not know since my father was tight-lipped about all thing Masonic.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 98 of 235: Ginny  (vibrown) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (12:26) * 1 lines 
 
Hmm...maybe it was just the interpretations by the lodge my brother joined, then.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 99 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (12:29) * 1 lines 
 
It is entirely possible. When my Dad retired from New Rochelle, NY and eventually settled in Tucson, Arizona, he did not care for the chapter there so did not transfer his membership He remained a member in good standing and had a Masonic funeral.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 100 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (14:46) * 5 lines 
 
they're probably sworn to secrecy. another lady i work with has a masonic ring for her wedding ring.

i had heard that those organizations are dark when you get into the stuff they keep hidden. the good works are only surface stuff. don't know, really, never had any associations with them. the kids love the shriners because of their cute cars. that and helping crippled children is all i can associate shriners with.

how did we get on this subject? *grin*


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 101 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (15:28) * 1 lines 
 
Sacred geometry and "Holy Blood Holy Grail" discussion. This is the topic in Geo and Paraspring where we let it hang out and see what sort of things come to surface. Yup! Masons are sworn to secrecy...but I am sure my father would have exited immediately from any organization which worshipped the dark side or even pretended. Either some chapters have gone off on their own or others are reporting erroneous information - or both!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 102 of 235: anne hale  (ommin) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (23:28) * 1 lines 
 
You have left out Surrey - in your showing of Stone Circles etc. One thing we do have is circles of ancient trees - one of which is near Polesden Lacey and is on the way to Boxhill. There definitly ley lines in Surrey - one on St. Martha's Hill a very strange place - have often picnicked there - you can actually see the ley line it is extremely magnetic and has a strange feel around it. These cirles of ancient trees - Yew most of them are also strange and much used in Witchcraft. In Bookham there is a very ancient common - woods where witchcraft is still practiced. When Heather my friend and I were searching for Ley lines we came across the circle used by them. My dog who was with us behaved in a peculiar manner, but it was he who found it. Of course they would be fully aware of the ancient ley lines and use them.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 103 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Tue, Feb 29, 2000 (23:36) * 1 lines 
 
Anne! How we have needed you here. Bless your new motherboard! Thanks for this posting. More!!! I did not know about the rings of trees and other wondrous things in Surrey. You have actually searched for Ley lines?! Hey, Gang! We have a real expert now! Thank you more than I can say!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 104 of 235: MarkG  (MarkG) * Wed, Mar  1, 2000 (07:04) * 5 lines 
 
Leith Hill did get a mention earlier with its nine parish boundaries intersecting and the tower that ensured a viewpoint over 1,000ft high in South-East England. There is also a pond near Boxhill traditionally believed to be bottomless.

Surrey is my original stamping-ground too, though I am not a big believer in ley-lines. Also I do not see why dogs would be susceptible to geo-magnetism; is the theory that humans would be, but have shut it out?

An excellent walk on the Surrey/Sussex border once took us through whole groves of ancient yews (the spookiest things you ever saw) up to the Devil's Stepping Stones, a series of tumuli running along a ridge of the South Downs.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 105 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Wed, Mar  1, 2000 (10:37) * 1 lines 
 
*Sigh* I wish I could have tagged along on any of these hikes. Boxhill is famous in ley-hunters books. Perhaps it is time to mention the types of barrows found in that part of England. Anyone who has visited the area know exactly where Frodo was in Lord of the Rings when they were trying to evade the evils coming from the barrows (don't want to give anything away here for someone else who might like to read the books.) But, that is a topic for Archaeology (Geo 17)


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 106 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Wed, Mar  1, 2000 (12:16) * 5 lines 
 
mark, what you said is exactly right on. animals are very suseptible to the "other worldly" matters. dogs can hear their owners' vehicles up to 4 miles away! so, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they can detect strong magnetism in certain spots. we (the human animal) are so afraid to venture out into the unknown (the survival instinct) and question everything we cannot see or touch. it's amazing that we believe in aliens but question the existance of God! not trying to preach at all.

love tolkein. my dad has every book that man has written plus the books with his maps and everything.

ring of trees is interesting. could they have been used as territorial markers the way farmers lined their fields? and when we're talking witches, do we mean wiccan or sorcerers?


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 107 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Wed, Mar  1, 2000 (13:06) * 118 lines 
 
More on the insult to Stonehenge plus some fascinating material which goes along with the ley line theme: http://www.mistral.co.uk/hammerwood/earthwav.htm
Buildings and landscapes, temples, Mother of all - Earth, the physics of invisible and immortal
by David Pinnegar BSC ARCS
URGENT SOS: THE TIMES NEWSPAPER REPORTS THAT STONEHENGE IS IN DANGER
An old man once asked what was the difference between someone from the town and someone from the countryside. "The
town man", he said, "is clever. The country man is wise".

Town men might laugh at the bee-keeper talking to his bees or the seedsman talking to his plants and tell them that they are
mad. When a swarm of wild bees in the walls of Hammerwood heard a bee-keeper proposing to kill them for fear of the
spread of disease, the bees heard him and felt my fear for them! Within two hours they had fled elsewhere.

Increasingly that which was unimaginable is now understandable. What would the medieval peasant have thought about that
biblical story of Adam being put to sleep, cut open, the extraction of a rib and his being sewn back together, alive?

In the past, life was simple - it was all a matter of belief. As we ate of the tree of knowledge, life became less clear. With
imperfect knowledge Darwinists told us that we evolved from a primeval sea of life and they disrupted the faith of many. Yet
scientific understanding of the DNA mechanism may yet confirm conclusively our old beliefs. If life ever evolved from chaos,
the ancient myths suggest that it did so in another creation.

What was light long ago has faded into darkness. Imperfect knowledge plunges us into a sea of uncertainty but in the deeper
knowledge of science we rediscover the beauty of creation. The job common to artists, priests and scientists is to make that
which was invisible visible. The task of the museum curator is to preserve the source materials.

Astrology should by reason have no connexion with fact or science. It's apparent former connotations with spiritualists and
the occult justified its treatment with the ultimate of caution and scepticism. The availability of modern computer software,
however, has transformed the treatment of the subject from a dubious art to a calculated mechanism. Upon acquiring such
an "instant astrologer" program over the recent year, purely for fun, my perception of the subject has been transformed. The
results, based upon accurate information relating to the subject's time and place of birth, can often give a most remarkable
insight into the characteristics of the person concerned. Their strengths and weaknesses, when revealed can be of positive
benefit to them. Large commercial organisations take astrology as seriously as graphology in parallel with CVs in assessing
prospective candidates for jobs.

So why should it work? What connexion can there be between our destiny cast at the time of our birth and the planets and
stars? The idea that gravity is involved is not new: The moon and planets all exert their gravitational forces and this has a
visible effect on the tides. The connexion with the perception of water in our bodies is then derived. Epidemiologists take the
subject seriously. But the effect is more than the simple alteration of water levels: each planet and astral constellation
appears to exert differing characteristics which affect our behaviour. (People's behaviour, as well as the weather, is
currently being influenced by a massive heavenly body which is travelling through the solar system. The effect is almost
as a perpetual full moon!) We are controlled by thought and, if the results of astrology are testimony to the effect, there is an
apparent communication in the control of our thought at the moment we are born.

Astrology thus provides an idea that there is some influence of the heavenly bodies upon our thoughts by reason of a
gravitational communication, some sort of telepathy.

Matthew 17:20
If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall
remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

John 3:12
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

At risk of ridicule, an American hypnotherapist, Dolores Cannon records in her book "Keepers of the Garden" an account of
a patient who under regression was, if you like, under the delusion that he was an extra-terrestrial upon another planet.
Hiroshima sent waves to "them up there" and, he says, "they" are worried by us. Before quantum physics, conventionalists
who had heard of relativity would have said it was impossible - nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.

According to Cannon's patient "them up there" know what we are thinking: the pyramids and the Washington Monument are
the earth's telepathic transmitters! Such a concept may not be as ridiculous as it seems: if telepathic waves are gravitational,
tall massive obelisks will vibrate with the earth beneath them, just as a seismologist's earthquake measuring device, and
transmit waves like our tall television transmitters. Similarly, the one thing common to pyramids is mass which leads
to the distortion of the earth's gravitational field, with chambers, tunnels and long small shafts - just like
gravitational microwave resonators, waveguides and transmitters.

The Natural Law Party of Transcendental Meditationalists with their ridiculed Yogic Flying claim that, by 200 of their
members practising in an area afflicted by inner-city troubles, they can reduce the crime rate. The idea is that they are
reducing their mind to the purist levels of thought and conveying these by some telepathic influence. They must believe it with
the greatest of sincerity. In the course of Yogic meditation, not only is the mind straightened into coherent thoughts, just as
light waves in a laser, but the back is straightened. Perhaps in the connexion of our brain to the straightened spine and
thereafter to an array of bones in the rib cage we have within each of us a powerful capacity to transmit and receive
telepathic waves.

As Christians, when we pray, we must believe in telepathy because how else are we allowing "the spirit" of God to talk to us
and we to Him? And don't we believe that the more of us who are praying simultaneously, the more influence our prayers
might have on world events?

The ancient Cretans believed in the earth as mother and their buildings had to pay reverence to the earth and all
that lived therein (Vincent Scully The Earth, the Temple and the Gods). The Minoan palaces together with the Greek
temples were carefully aligned upon manifestations of the earth's features - its valleys and its hills. Just as we
look at television transmitting aerials (dipoles) and might compare them to "telepathic" obelisks, another form of
television aerial familiar to us has arrays of parallel elements - just like the repeating masses of the columns of
ancient Greek temples, aligned on massive distortions of the earth's gravitational field.

Perhaps neither the Classicists nor the Gothicists were wrong in their differing advocations for church architecture? Perhaps
we may rediscover the legendary secret knowledge of the ancient stone masons? Perhaps churches must have either tall
towers or spires pointing to heaven, or vast arrays of classical columns focused in a portico? Within such churches, whether
gothic or classical, more columns are to be found binding the members of the church together and holding up the roof and
perhaps connecting gravitational waves as we pray.

Modern physics confirms that there is matter, perhaps called "super-symmetric matter", which we can neither see nor detect
because it is independent of the properties of electrons and electromagnetism. (This suggests the veracity of the otherwise
incredible story of Claude Vorilhon Rael, which includes a specific reference to metal: "The book which tells the truth"). In the
"Super Unification Thory" of modern physics, super-symmetric matter is linked with the nature of gravity. The transmission of
matter symmetry information is required by modern quantum theory to be instantaneous. Because super-symmetric matter
contains none of the properties of electrons, electromagnetic waves cannot interact with it and we therefore cannot see it.

Gravitational waves do affect us: there are people who we call "lunatics" who are directly affected by the gravity of the moon.
We see the water of the tides move too. We are ourselves 90% water - and our brains are equally full of it. The water
molecule is physically and electrically lop-sided, imbalanced. As water molecules move, electrical charges move and
interfere with other electrical charges moving in our brains. As our brains move charges, they move water molecules with
them!

The formerly incredible and intangible begins thus to have foundation in physics. Our ancient beliefs of what we were told at
the beginning of time should be our foundation: departure from these is more likely to be an aberration of an imperfect
science rather than an imperfection of what we were told.

When we meet the next messenger of our Creation, will we believe him when he is sent to tell us of things unseen now to us
but seen in heaven? Will we recognise "the Son of man coming from the clouds"? Will we crucify him too? That which was
inconceivable a couple of generations ago now seems possible and daily the scientists are proving creation to be true.

Week by week we learn of new advances in our knowledge of DNA, including in 1995 the discovery of the section of DNA
which counts the number of times a cell has divided and thereby controls the lifetime of the body. The removal of this section
from the DNA code results in a body of everlasting lifetime. Immortals and those pre-flood lifetimes of hundreds of years are
myth no more.

--------------------

Loads more links at the above URL on the subject



 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 108 of 235: Maggie  (sociolingo) * Wed, Mar  1, 2000 (13:13) * 1 lines 
 
(Have just finished listening to the BBC radio dramatised version of Lord of the Rings on a set of cassettes. Enthralling if you like that sort of thing. Well, we enjoyed it anyway.) Hadn't thought of Box hill in that connection. We went there for school trips.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 109 of 235: Maggie  (sociolingo) * Thu, Mar  2, 2000 (02:07) * 32 lines 
 
The stone circles of The Gambia



Although West Africa has no monuments comparable to the Pyramids and Temples of Ancient Egypt or the ruins of Zimbabwe, it has in the stone circles of the Senegal and the Gambia impressive remains that have puzzled the few travellers who have examined them. Stone circles of many types are found throughout Europe and the Near East, though nowhere is there so large a concentration as found on the north bank of the river Gambia.

Here there are hundreds of circles containing many curious features and in particular the unique V or Lyre stones. The commonest shape is round like a pillar with a flat top. Others are square; some taper upwards. There are small stones with a cup-shaped hollow on top. Others have a ball cut in the round top of the stone. There is a recumbent stone shaped like a pillow.



The Circles are composed of standing stones between ten and twenty four in any particular circle. One of the striking feature is that almost all the stones forming a given circle are of the same height and size. Their height above the ground varying between two hundred and forty five (245cm) centimeters and sixty centimeters (60cm). The diameter is from thirty centimeters (30cm) to one hundred centimeters (100cm).

The largest stones which are at N'jai Kunda must weigh about ten tons each. They were brought down a steep hillside and their transportation on rollers or on hammocks must have presented formidable difficulties and have required a considerable labor force.




The stone circles at Wassu
As a results of Laboratory tests at the University of Dakar, the date of the sample was found to be from 750 A.D plus or minus 110 years.
The stones were cut out of laterite (" a cementation of ferruginous sandstone ") that occurs in large outcrops in this region. It is a feature of this stone that it hardens upon exposure to the air, and that prior to such exposure it is relatively easy to quarry.
Where several circles are found on the same site the exterior stones form a continuos line as at Wassu.



A lot of explanations have been given about the shape of the Senegambia Stone Circles by Islamic historians and wise observers.
One of such explanations was revealed by the late Alhaji Kemoring Jaiteh a well known Islamic scholar of Kuntaur Fulla Kunda in Niani. According to his writings, if a small stone stands near a large one, that shows that, some one was buried with his/her child. Similarly, if the stones are V-shape, that pictures that two close relatives died on the same day and were buried together.
The circles are said to be built around mounds of kings and chiefs, in the same way as royal persons were buried in the ancient empire of Ghana.
Once Islam was brought into Senegambia in the 11th century, devout Muslims especially the "Karamos" were also buried in the same way. Consequently, some of these Circles became holy places.
Today, small stones and vegetables like tomatoes are still left on the stones. Some of these stones are said to shine bright at night.

from URL: http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcacamara/stones.html



 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 110 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar  2, 2000 (11:17) * 2 lines 
 
Thanks, Maggie. Thanks for getting us out of the insular mode and into the wider world of stone circles. There are even Amerindian one. Fascinating.
The url is always welcome and as soon as I am fully awake I'm going there to look for pictures.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 111 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar  2, 2000 (11:43) * 7 lines 
 
Maggie's Pictures of African Stone Circles:








 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 112 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar  2, 2000 (11:44) * 1 lines 
 
Very interesting. Looks like they had to fabricate their megaliths out of smaller stones or bricks. Thanks! Most interesting. Are they on Ley Lines, as well?


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 113 of 235: Maggie  (sociolingo) * Thu, Mar  2, 2000 (13:14) * 1 lines 
 
Did you get my email? That's why I asked if there was a ley line map of Africa. I wondered if it was connected. Did the pictures send OK by email, I just lifted them off the site and they downloaded as jpeg files. These stones are made out of the stuff they make roads with. It's a red stone, I think it's cut in one piece rather than made up of lots of small stones. It just looks crumbly.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 114 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar  2, 2000 (13:34) * 1 lines 
 
I have not checked for one yet, but it is on the earth's E-Line which I mentioned above. I am sure one (leyline map for Africa) exists. Will hunt for one next. If you look at the first post I made this morning in here it contains your photos you emailed me and I put on Spring's hard drive. Thanks so much - I never would have thought of looking for stone circles in Africa. Have you seen any?


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 115 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar  2, 2000 (13:42) * 136 lines 
 
This is part of a very long but fascinating article on what are ley lines and are they real. Check it out http://www.isr.umd.edu/~jasonp/leyline.html

Ley Lines and Coincidence
"So, recently folks have been connecting
up all these ancient sites with straight
lines. They can get four, five, even six
of them, all in a row."
"Sure, but it's all by chance, isn't it?"
Is it?
Every time I brought up the ley phenomenon to the uninitiated,
I was immediately cut off by this question. The English countryside
is full of very ancient sites and earthworks, and many of these
fall on alignments over ten miles long, with eerie accuracy. Examples
can be found of these "ley lines" that seem to defy the law of averages,
and one would be hard-pressed to believe that such cases could possibly
arise by chance.

This paper will explore the statistics of ley lines. Leys are
a controversial topic, and objections to their being intentional have
arisen from many directions. I will examine what physically constitutes a
ley line and then review previous work on how likely a ley line is to
arise by chance. A sizeable portion of this paper will then be devoted to
my own computer experiments. Note in passing that to focus on ley
statistics requires being sketchy in other areas.

What's In a Ley?
The simplest answer is "prehistoric standing stones and
earthworks", but already there is controversy. Prehistory spans a
very long period, and when two random "ancient" structures are
chosen it is possible that these features were constructed in
periods separated by almost 4000 years (WB 1983:31). Thus those two
structures could have been constructed by very different societies,
and have had nothing to do with each other.
Many ley hunters when including (non-prehistoric) churches in
leys, cite a letter from Pope Gregory in 601 AD stating that pagan
"temples" ought not to be destroyed, but purified and converted to
churches (Watkins 194:117). Indeed, there are standing stones in
country churchyards, as Watkins shows. Including all churches
because of this, however, is unrealistic. Devereux and Thomson list
a ley through London that consists of five medieval churches,
despite the fact that
"...the city site, while not completely de-
serted...was of no special importance until
the Romans founded their settlement" (WB 1983:138)
Likewise with castles: a mound is more defensible than flat
ground, and many prehistoric mounds exist; castle keeps, then,
belong on ley lines. It is again unrealistic, however, that all
medieval nobility would have their choice of castle site dictated
by existing terrain, when they could simply have the terrain
modified to suit their wishes exactly.
Watkins hypothesized that ley lines were the sighting points
for a vast network of "straight tracks" that covered prehistoric
England, and his book includes several crossroads used as ley
points and instances of dirt pathways uncovered in the course of
sewer excavation (Watkins 1948:38-39).
The impression received is that deciding whether a given site
is a viable candidate for being a "ley point" is a difficult matter
and would often require archaeological evidence. Ley hunting is
typically an easy matter, however. Most ley hunters would only
connect the ley points on an Ordnance Service (OS) map and then
confirm the ley points in the field. Most do not perform more
orthodox research which would tell, for example, that the straight
paths through England are mostly "Planned Countryside" enacted by
Parliament in the 18th and 19th Centuries, while older tracks than
these are "notoriously devoid of straight lines" (WB 1983:88).
Notice also that many of the citations in this paper are from
Williamson and Bellamy, both archaeologists; this is because they
include historical evidence where others do not.
In fairness to the existing material, "questionable" ley sites
(small mark stones, trees, stretches of modern road) are usually
ignored in a published ley.
How wide must an "old straight track" be? Watkins insisted
that ancient tracks be just wide enough to travel on foot, perhaps
two to four yards (DT 1979:72). Using a very sharp pencil on an OS
map produces an effective line about 30 feet wide; this would be
about the best one could expect without doing fieldwork.
Statistical studies often could not work with widths less than a
hundred yards (see Appendix).
Ley Statistics
Watkins was the first (1925) to attempt answering the question
of whether ley lines of significant size could arise by chance
(Watkins 1948:203-204). The OS sheet of Andover contains 51
churches that can be organized into 1 five-point, 8 four-point and
29 three-point leys. To see how many leys could be expected by
chance he marked out 51 crosses "haphazardly" on a similar size
sheet, and found no five-point, 1 four-point and 33 three-point
leys. He concluded from this that with 50 sites, finding a four-
point ley by chance was unlikely, and a five-point ley was ironclad
evidence that the placement was deliberate.
From this he developed a rating system (DT 1979:31) that
assigned points to possible ley features: "ancient sites" got a
full point, and incidental features like stretches of road, "mark
stones", or "ancient trees" fractions of a point. If the total
summed to 5 or more the ley was deemed to be deliberate.
Peter Furness in 1965 derived a closed-form expression
(details unavailable) for the probability of a given size ley
existing (DT 1979:38), and from this declared that a seven-point
ley would only arise in 1 out of 1000 OS maps. Further (WB
1983:94), assuming a given map had 200 ley points, he calculated
that one could expect 1570 three-point, 72 four-point and 2 five-point
alignments to occur by chance. Confirmation of a sort came
from Robert Forrest (WB 1983:95), whose computer study is the only
one of its kind available. His 200 random point run found that 752
three-point, 33 four-point and 2 five-point ley lines existed by
chance alone, and suggested that Watkins' criterion of a five-point
ley being almost impossible was unrealistic for large collections
of points.
Both these studies required many assumptions (WB 1983:96-98):
that there were only 200 points in the average map (the average is
300 to 400), that they were all small (some earthworks can reach 10
acres in area), all evenly distributed, etc. Accounting for these
factors theoretically would have been next-to-impossible, so
Forrest instead ran a simulation. This involved looking at a sample
map, randomizing the points in it but keeping their distribution
the same, and plotting all the ley lines by hand. This time many
more lines were found: 39 five-point, 10 six-point and 1 seven-point
alignments.
There is also a famous study by John Michell, but I omit it
due to doubts about its assumptions. The interested reader should
consult (WB 1983:102-106).
Personal Investigation
"The past evidence for leys is statisti-
cally poor. It is to be hoped that future
evidence will be of a much more rigorous
nature." -Robert Forrest (DT 1979:39)
Computer work on ley line statistics seems to have stopped,
and I wondered if more could be learned with modern computers and
recent mathematical results. I therefore have tried to analyze the
available evidence based on my own numerical experiments. Though I
have attempted to make assumptions as realistic as possible,
getting answers requires ignoring a lot of information, like the
length of a given ley or the topography of the sample region.


The research methodology and results continue in this fascinating article.
Thanks, Maggie, for sending me the URL for it.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 116 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Thu, Mar  2, 2000 (21:05) * 5 lines 
 
here's a url for crop circles (gonna post in physical phenom too):

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/1700/Crop-Circles/PB-Crop-Circles.html

slow-loading so be patient!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 117 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Thu, Mar  2, 2000 (21:23) * 1 lines 
 
Oh yes! Loads of them...artbell.com even has a link...Loads of them around Stonehenge in the summer and early Autumn. Thanks, Wolfie...I'll post more and some pictures as well.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 118 of 235: Cheryl  (CherylB) * Fri, Mar  3, 2000 (16:22) * 1 lines 
 
I have a little bit of information about magnetic fields in the ocean. It seems that the lemon sharks hatched in the Bimini Lagoon unfailing return every year their natal waters to lay their own eggs. How do they find their way? Magnetic fields. It seems the sharks can sense the proper magnetic field, get onto it, and use like a highway to get to their destination. It never fails them. It would seem knowing where you're going is really important when you're a fish that can't swim backward.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 119 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Fri, Mar  3, 2000 (16:25) * 1 lines 
 
indeed! *lol*


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 120 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Fri, Mar  3, 2000 (16:51) * 1 lines 
 
Right...and it just will not do for sharks to surface all that often to check polarization as Whales and Turtles and other air breathers do. Condsidering that Sharks are unchanged from the time of dinosaurs, they must have hit on the right combination early in their evolution! Thanks, Cheryl. Guess I did not know that!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 121 of 235: anne hale  (ommin) * Sun, Mar  5, 2000 (04:27) * 5 lines 
 
Now folks a serious question to do with geomagnatism. Some years ago I was told
I study Astronomy by the way and meteorology, that they couldn't find the magnetic north pole - apparantly it keeps wondering about the place - now that must have an effect on
ley lines etc. The pool near Boxhill that was being talked about is called the Mill Pond it has not far from the edge and extraordinarily deep hole - and when you look at it it is coloured the deepest and most beautiful blue - and we were told as children not to swim in the Mill Pond because it was so deep. In fact for many years Leatherhead my home town had all its water from there - it was the softest, tastiest water I have ever tasted - now its been taken over and they get London water. ugh.
Do you think whales beach themselves because of the change in the magnetic north sorry to switch back but strange things are happening around the world and its got my attenae working.
Mark what part of Surrey are you from.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 122 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Sun, Mar  5, 2000 (12:05) * 16 lines 
 
Let me post this first, then I will tackle Anne's comments...
http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/plate_tectonics/rift.html


Rift in the ocean floor through which red-hot magma is squeezed up
from the mantle. The magma solidifies with a magnetic polarity
corresponding to that of the Earth's magnetic field. After a long interval
of time, the Earth's polarity changes, that is, the magnetic north pole
becomes the magnetic south pole, and so the polarity of the newly
formed crust changes, too. As new magma is squeezed in, the older
crust is moved out from the midocean ridge like a conveyor belt. This
produces a series of strips of rock magnetized in opposite senses, with
the magnetic stripes parallel and symmetrical to the ridges.
Shallow-focus earthquakes occur on the ridge; intermediate and
deep-focus earthquakes occur on the downgoing plate as it collides
with another plate.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 123 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Sun, Mar  5, 2000 (12:12) * 5 lines 
 
Better than I could ever explain it and with great diagrams, here is the scoop on the Magnetic North Pole: http://geo.phys.uit.no/articl/roadto.html
It is a super read and super easy to understand.

There is some conjecture that the beached animals are already sick in such a way as to render their location-sensing system inactive or sending incorrect messages. Perhaps it is a reflex to move to a place where they will not drown if they become incapacitated. Beaching would accomplish that. But, Until we can talk to them we really won't know, I imagine!



 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 124 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Sun, Mar  5, 2000 (13:30) * 1 lines 
 
i've heard that there is usually one animal in the group who is ill and the others follow to offer it support. interesting about the north pole moving around. maybe the magnetism has something to do with the moon (like tides)...


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 125 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Sun, Mar  5, 2000 (13:44) * 1 lines 
 
The moon is large enough to cause tides as it revolves around us. When it is on the same side of us that the sun is, the tidal pull is stronger and the tides higher. Spring tides are strongest because in our eliptical orbit, the sun is closest to us. It is more centrifugal - centripital force than magnetism which does the pulling.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 126 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Sun, Mar  5, 2000 (16:21) * 1 lines 
 
how does the moon pull then? just by the force as it runs around us? interesting.....


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 127 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Sun, Mar  5, 2000 (19:34) * 1 lines 
 
Yup! It is massive enough that it is being held into orbit by the sun pulling one way and the Earth pulling the other. That is often how they discover second stars orbiting a large star or planets orbiting a single star. The stars in question tend to have less-than-perfect orbits, and these "Perturbations" are due to the pull of the planets or the minor stars orbiting them.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 128 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Sun, Mar  5, 2000 (19:36) * 1 lines 
 
Btw, the moon is massive enough and so is the sun, that when they pull on the same side of the orbit, it will cause tides in the liquid rock on which the plates float thus bending the plates themselves (Mike? Or is is just on the crust?)


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 129 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Sun, Mar  5, 2000 (19:37) * 1 lines 
 
Oh yeah, there are more earthquakes at the dark of the moon (like right now) than any other time - for that very reason!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 130 of 235: anne hale  (ommin) * Mon, Mar  6, 2000 (02:22) * 1 lines 
 
Well thank you all for your explanations - especially that at the dark of the moon. Also one of our weather forecasters told us the moon is nearer to us at present - or at least he said so a couple of weeks ago. That must make a difference to the liquid magma I suppose.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 131 of 235: MarkG  (MarkG) * Mon, Mar  6, 2000 (05:52) * 7 lines 
 
Anne, I wish I could claim I was from 'proper' Surrey - I am in fact from Cheam (now part of Greater London).

We went for a walk yesterday from Boxhill station out towards Polesden Lacey and back through Westhumble. Went past Tanners Hatch, a remote youth hostel spoiled by bombs in the War. We read that during the rebuilding in 1970, an old woman knocked on the door one evening asking the way to Wotton Hatch. She was invited in by the National Trust people and given a meal, and complimented them on the work done to the house, saying she had lived there herself long ago. When the time came for her to leave the door was opened, but she had disappeared, and an owl was sitting on the back of the chair she had been in, the same owl that had been the only creature watching the renovation work.

You have to see this cottage in its little thickly-wooded valley to appreciate the spookiness of this story, however apocryphal. Nothing to do with Geomagnetism and sharks, sorry.

Is magnetism the way that turtles always make it back to their home beach to lay eggs, despite travelling across oceans for years in between?


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 132 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Mon, Mar  6, 2000 (10:25) * 3 lines 
 
Geomagnetism is usually for thin-skinned (no shell) creatures who are do not surface for air. The air-breathers are usually navigating by polarization of sunlight(which also works on cloudy days) much as the Vikings did after they figured it out...or remembered it again.

Mark, that was the most incredible story! It is 6am and still dark outside; I am now full of chills of the most incredible sort. Thanks for sharing that story. I'll bet being there was even more amazing. I'll bet it was mentioned on the walk back!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 133 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Mon, Mar  6, 2000 (13:03) * 3 lines 
 
that's some story, mark, an owl....the turtles use the stars (as they hatch at night) and for this reason, some are found going the wrong way because they are fooled by the street lights.

i would love to sit on the beach and watch these turtles make their way home.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 134 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Mon, Mar  6, 2000 (14:06) * 4 lines 
 
I would love to watch the hatching little scapers, but it would be beyond me to not interfere with the little ones who go astray and that is strictly forbidden.
We have them here and I guess I could arrange to be in on one. Hmmm...!

Is anyone interested in experiencing something incredible? Dowsing? I am an extreme skeptic but my son taught me and it is the most astounding thing to have rods swiveling in your hands when you are not moveing them! I can tell you how and what you need...


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 135 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Mon, Mar  6, 2000 (14:08) * 1 lines 
 
There is conjecture that some birds use polarized light and others use star patterns as turtles do (you are right about that, Wolfie!)...and Polynesians!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 136 of 235: Maggie  (sociolingo) * Mon, Mar  6, 2000 (14:09) * 1 lines 
 
Have you decided how dowsing works? - I don't think it's magic!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 137 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Mon, Mar  6, 2000 (14:17) * 1 lines 
 
Not magic at all - at least the kind I will teach you - we localed the pipes and electrical circuit under our cement slab floor and out into the septic tank using this method and it works incredibly precisely!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 138 of 235: Wolf  (wolf) * Mon, Mar  6, 2000 (15:19) * 1 lines 
 
don't you need a willow branch? the only willow in my neighborhood is in someone's yard and i don't think they'd appreciate me sneaking over there in the middle of the night to get a forked branch! dowsing amazes me though! and yes, i'd love to try, so do tell us, it'd be a "hands on" lesson!!


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 139 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Mon, Mar  6, 2000 (16:12) * 3 lines 
 
I do not know how to hunt for water with a willow branch. When I told the house male what David showed me the ever-skeptical IO said he had done it lots of time himself but did not let on he did. It worked for him, too.

Get thee to a auromotive parts store or wherever you can find bronze brazing rods. Mine are about 36" or 1 meter long. You'll need two. They are skinny so I used empty stick ball pen outsides with the ink chamber removed. You're gonna need a vise here or a pair of pliers and a strong arm 'cause you need to bend at a right angle about 4" (10 cm) of one end. David used just his bare hands but I found it easier to hold steady with a larger thing to grip. The rods must be held loosely enough to swing freely.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 140 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Mon, Mar  6, 2000 (16:18) * 1 lines 
 
Now that you have them in your hands and you can pivot your body without moving your feet and have the rods swing in them, we are off to try them out. Holding them so the long parts are parallel to the ground and with your elbows tight to your sides so you do not try to move the rods, consider your hands and arms extensions of your rods. Work in your house first so you know if there are pipes under you and that you are NOT moving the rods. Holding your arms and wrists rigid and holding loosely to your rods but keeping them straight out in front of you, walk slowly across the room.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 141 of 235: Cheryl  (CherylB) * Mon, Mar  6, 2000 (16:20) * 1 lines 
 
I'm sorry to throw the topic back to the Moon, but it is a massive sattelite to the Earth. Being 1/6 the size of the Earth makes it so large in fact that the Earth and Moon together can be considered a double planet. At one time it was much closer to the Earth, making for a year of 44 months and phenomenally high tides which rushed across the Earth's surface.


 Topic 27 of 92 [Geo]: Geomagnetism
 Response 142 of 235: Marcia  (MarciaH) * Mon, Mar  6, 2000 (16:22) * 1 lines 
 
You are right, of cours