Topic 31 of 74: Wuthering Heights video release date
Sat, Aug 30, 1997 (19:19) |
Linda Polin (Linda3)
HI Everyone,
I just read in the LA Times that the 1992 version of Wuthering Heights with Ralph Fiennes and Juliette Binoche will be out on video October 14. I know a few of us have been looking around for it, as it hasn't been easy to find. It's supposed to be a more complete version, covering the second half of the book and the next generation of the families. I'd love to hear your opinion if anyone has already seen it!
62 responses total.
Topic 31 of 74 [bronte]: Wuthering Heights video release date
Response 1 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Sat, Aug 30, 1997 (21:19) * 1 lines
Thank you for the update, Linda!!! So that's why I haven't been able to find it. I really like these two actors a lot, & I would love to own this version. Fiennes always seems to be playing impassive Englishmen, so it will be interesting to see how he approaches a more passioniate character.
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Response 2 of 62: Barbara P Wood (bpwood) * Mon, Sep 1, 1997 (21:30) * 3 lines
That version of Wuthering Heights is the same that was on TNT- I taped it from TV and have nearly worn out my poor copy. And I do mean poor- as in quality. However- even with that- Ralph Fiennes has to be the most beautiful- AND the most believable Heathcliff. He is MY Heathcliff anyway. The reason I enjoyed The English Patient so much was the memory of him and Juliete Binoche together as Cathy and Heathcliff, and Catherine and Heathcliff - Binoche plays both. I can't wait to see a good quality tape w
thout those looong commercial breaks that TNT does. Though I'm not sure how many more times I could have watched even a good tape without being too obsessed. The music is as haunting and beautiful as Heathcliff himself. And as to being faithful to the book, as soon as I watched this version I re-read the book and did indeed feel it covered the ultimate fate if the Lintons and the Earnshaws fully. Janet Mc Teer(sp) is a grand Nelly Dean- and I've run out of adjectives-- does anyone love this as much as
I do?
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Response 3 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Tue, Sep 2, 1997 (10:27) * 1 lines
Wow, Barbara, sounds like you LIKED it! I just adore the 2 actors & can't wait to get my hands on a copy! I have to confess, Olivier was so gorgeous as Healthcliff in the 1939 version that he is my current favorite, but Ralph Fiennes isn't too hard on the eyes either... And Binoche is just wonderful. How does she manage playing an English character (she is French??)
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Response 4 of 62: Barbara P Wood (bpwood) * Wed, Sep 3, 1997 (17:05) * 3 lines
Not only did I like it(WH), I became obsessed with It for a while-- I tend to do that with computer, books, music and movies in my old age. I just turned 52! Ha! Seriously all my children are out of college and out of the house-- therefore I took over the stereo and an empty bedroom and IT'S my haven. TV/VCR always has something I'm obsessed with in-- from the movie & sound track to Farinelli to RF in Wuthering Heights. I went for so many years hearing Prince- Jimi H, and assorted others blasting in my
house that I'm due a few years.
As to J. Binoche-- until I heard an interview last winter around Oscar time I didn't realise just how much of a French accent comes through naturally. She is quite believable as Cathy and Hana(TEP) the Canadian. I haven't seen her in anything else but I will watch anything now. I think it's the Red of the RW&B movie trilogy she's in. Of course Parade Mag. said before WH was shown on TNT that the male lead was more beautiful than the female lead. Quite true! Those eyes ****
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Response 5 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Wed, Sep 3, 1997 (17:25) * 1 lines
I loved FARINELLI -- a very haunting film! Yes, that Ralph Fiennes is a major babe -- I'd like to see him play something other than a repressed Englishman, & this WH may be the trick (I didn't catch STRANGE DAYS). How do they handle Cathy & Heathcliff in their younger days? Younger actors?
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Response 6 of 62: Barbara P Wood (bpwood) * Wed, Sep 3, 1997 (17:48) * 2 lines
Cathy and Heathcliff as children are of course played by children- which I didn't find too appealing but they are on for such a short while that they don't have much chance to develop any real connection. Just long enough to explain where Heathcliff comes from and everyone's relationship. Shortly after Mr Earnshaw's death JB, RF and JN come in as young Cathy, Heathcliff and Hindley.--- All VERY appealing. I find very interesting the relationship between H and Nelly Dean- she is to me the only mother fi
ure he has and the only one who understands and is not afraid of him or repulsed by him - I think she really cares for him (and so does Hareton as he grows up) -- This relationship is played out quite sympathetically in this version. If you haven't seen this WH-- be sure to look closely at the narrator - unnamed in the credits. Very interesting choice.
Topic 31 of 74 [bronte]: Wuthering Heights video release date
Response 7 of 62: Barbara P Wood (bpwood) * Wed, Sep 3, 1997 (17:56) * 1 lines
I might add to my statement about Nelly Dean being the only one who really loved H, before anyone jumps to say that Cathy did- Cathy also loved Cathy and selfishly denied her love for him-"for the love of a Linton" even though some of the most heartbreaking lines are those she speaks/and H over hears before he runs away-- the "I am Heathcliff" lines to Nelly. She still didn't wait for him---
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Response 8 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Wed, Sep 3, 1997 (19:10) * 1 lines
Did Cathy marry Linton strictly for the $$$ & the nice house? Was it wholly a mercenary move? I haven't read the book for so long, I honestly don't remember.
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Response 9 of 62: Barbara P Wood (bpwood) * Sun, Sep 7, 1997 (19:42) * 2 lines
Interesting review in the Richmond(VA) times Dispatch today of A Place to Call Home by Deborah Smith. I am quoting the reviewer Ron Carter "Scratch the surface of this novel, and you'll find the skeleton of Wuthering Heights with the Yorkshire moors transformed into the GA mountains and the Lintons & Earnshaws into the Sullivans and Maloneys. While in the hands of a lesser writer, this might amount to little more than a cheap trick, DS is able to make it work---------Picture Heathcliff showing up in a t
in engine Cessna instead of on horseback, and you've got Roan Sullivan..." Well Roan the name sounds too too for me but as a whole it sounds interesting. I've had a little computer trouble and didn't resp to Amy's last ques about Cathy's motive for marrying -I guess we all got distracted with the death of Princess Diana. So distressing that nothing else seemed worth thinking about--- Her life story is beyond the sadness and pain of even a Bronte fiction.
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Response 10 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Sun, Sep 7, 1997 (20:53) * 1 lines
Yes, it's hard to concentrate on fiction when this incredible real-life panorama is unfolding before us. I think I answered my own question by finishing WH - seems that Cathy (the Elder's) attraction to Linton was money, Thrushcross Grange, and the feeling that Heathcliff was beneath her, & might never re-appear.
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Response 11 of 62: Elena Sheehan (Rochelle) * Sun, Sep 7, 1997 (22:00) * 13 lines
There is, I believe, a frequent misreading of WH, in which it is believed Cathy chose
Edgar over Heathcliff. If you read the text, you'll find that Cathy actually intends to
love both of them. Her love for Edgar is an attraction of opposites, whereas, of course,
Heatcliff's soul is made of the same substance as her own. Cathy quite explicitly states
that she does not intend her relationship with Heathcliff to change after her marriage to
Edgar. After her illness she declares she is "past wanting" Edgar, but that dosn't mean
she never loved him - or at least believing she loved him. She might well have confused "need"
with "want", but she intended to be a good wife (arrghhh, horrible phrase) whilst using her
new position to help Heathcliff. To Victorian, and indeed to modern sensibilities, this might
seem immoral. It is certainly one of the questions about WH - to what degree is the relationship
between Heathcliff & Cathy sexual? It has been called curiously sexless. At any rate, Edgar
and Healthcliff were hardly in concurance with Cathy's plans, and the resulting conflict,
both between them and within herself, leads to her death.
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Response 12 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Mon, Sep 8, 1997 (10:52) * 2 lines
I noticed the almost complete lack of sex in the novel too, Elena. Especially when young women are imprisoned in WH with Heathcliff & Hareton (Young Catherine; Isabella; even Nelly Dean). Linton is of course a sexless creature.
I had a strange reaction after re-reading the book -- the brutality of charactesr & events almost made me physically ill. I could barely even retain my old sympathy for Catherine the Elder. My question to you is: what is the appeal of WH? What do you think Emily's aim was in writing it? Did she have one? I'm really curious to know. Thanks!!
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Response 13 of 62: Barbara P Wood (bpwood) * Mon, Sep 8, 1997 (17:17) * 3 lines
I suppose Cathy does love Edgar-- yet my sympathy in the story was never with anyone but Heathcliff. The victim of so many circumstances beyond his control, he must have thought life would be so good when Mr. Earnshaw becomes his protector-- then that ends so suddenly---Cathy and Nelly are his only family. Cathy proclaims that Heathcliff is her soul-- yet hurts him so horribly. I think I always felt Heathcliff's pain and understood why he could be so cruel. I have said before too that Nelly Dean seems
to just accept him for who and what he is-- knowing why --
Probably Heathcliff saw also that Linton's appeal to Cathy was money-- why else would he have come back with a fortune and continue to deceive and connive to get the Linton and Earnshaw fortunes as his own. Yet the poor man never gets Cathy and dies alone. Heartbreaking-- to a romantic like me--- That too is why the face of Ralph Fiennes fit perfectly into my image of Heathcliff.
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Response 14 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Mon, Sep 8, 1997 (19:02) * 2 lines
I guess what disturbed me this time around was Heathcliff's treatment of the next generation. His callous attitude toward Isabella; his keeping Hareton as an unlettered savage; his contriving to marry off Young C. to Linton just so he can get their $$$; his unending hatred of Linton, a basically harmless fellow; all of this started to weight on me -- I actually had a feeling of impending doom as I was reading, since you know exactly what "the fiend" is going to do next. I too really get into the Cathy/H
athcliff love story, but the utter brutality of Heathcliff after her death & his treatment of others did remind me of Milton's Satan -- he doesn't seem like anything human. The book never had this effect on me before -- maybe it was just the mood I was in, with Di's funeral and all...
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Response 15 of 62: Elena Sheehan (Rochelle) * Tue, Sep 9, 1997 (20:43) * 24 lines
Or does Heathcliff die alone without Cathy?
"I hasped the window; I combed his black long hair from his forehead; I tried to close his eyes -
to extinguish, if possible, that frightful, life-like gaze of exultation, before
any one else beheld it. They would not shut - they seemed to sneer at my attempts,
and his parted lips, and sharp, white teeth sneered too!"
I feel Emily left the question of what happened to Cathy and Heathcliff very open.
The ending is exquisite , where Lockwood wonders how "anyone could ever imagine
unquiet slumbers, for the sleepers in that quiet earth", but it is ironic. Of
course you can imagine unquiet sleep for those two! Indeed, in her delirium Cathy
tells Heathcliff to follow her beyond the grave, and imagines he tells her to come
to him instead. When she dies, he begs her to haunt him.
The haunting is not resolved with Heathcliff's death, either. Emily provides us with two
possible endings - they either rest in peace, or walk the earth as the country folk
and Joeseph believe.
Amy, I know what you mean about the savage, ominous impact of the book. What I'll
never forget is my reaction to Lockwood rubbing Cathy's ghost's wrist across the
broken glass until blood poured down the window - and he's the mildest character in
the book! Even passive Isabella is capable of using her nails to good effect.I've
cited part of a Virginia Woolf review under another heading that begins to approach
what I believe the appeal of WH is.
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Response 16 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Wed, Sep 10, 1997 (10:40) * 3 lines
Elena -- yes, the brutality of the "ghost" scene is one of the most disturbing.
I like to think, of course, that Cathy & Heathcliff did walk the moors together, and that her ghost did haunt him -- perhaps even for the 18 years he was left on earth without her? As you say, Emily's passage at the end of the book about this is unclear. If not, Heathcliff went to a great deal of trouble to torture a lot of people for nothing. My own sense is that they DID walk the earth together -- since Emily's sympathies seem to be w. Heathcliff, and she considered Earth superior to Heaven. I hope
o, anyway...
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Response 17 of 62: Elena Sheehan (Rochelle) * Thu, Oct 16, 1997 (21:03) * 11 lines
Ghosts certainly wandered about the place in the Gondal cycle - they haunt the
places they loved in life, they even appear and deliver ominous warnings. Gothic
convention? Amazing, when you look at the plot elements, just how many of the
gothic trappings are present in the novels. Ghosts, love beyond the grave, mad
wives in the attic, characters with dark and mysterious pasts...
The Gothic novel is largely a female genre, and an interesting area of study in
its own right. But the overall impression you gain from the Bronte novels is NOT
that they are throwbacks to that earlier era. And while you might see "Frankenstein"
and even "Dracula" grouped with "The Caste of Ontranto" and "The Monk", no one ever
seems to suggest JE belongs in a group so successfully satirised in "Northanger Abby"
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Response 18 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Fri, Oct 17, 1997 (10:10) * 1 lines
Exactly -- no Fanny Burneys here! I like the way that the Brontes weave Gothic elements into an otherwise -realistic- plot. I think that's what differentiates their work from FRANKENSTEIN & DRACULA, which are wholly Gothic works whose settings don't seem to be the real world at all.
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Response 19 of 62: Lorie Scafaro (LorieS) * Fri, Oct 17, 1997 (12:11) * 3 lines
Digressing a lot from the topic, but have any of you seen the episode of the TV series "Highlander" which explains Mary Shelly's Frankenstein novel as the result of her meeting with an immortal being? It was a fairly successful interpretation of her novel (vs. movie versions) and lots of fun.
OK, I do know this isn't the TV conference!
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Response 20 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Sun, Oct 19, 1997 (12:44) * 1 lines
No, I missed that -- sounds like a fun premise. I really loved the first HIGHLANDER film -- I was at Fox when we released it & I was totally blown away at an advance screening. Since I'm a huge Queen fan, this was a big plus for me too. How is the series, and who plays the Highlander? I hope it's not a HERCULES & XENA type of experience!!
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Response 21 of 62: Lorie Scafaro (LorieS) * Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (15:15) * 8 lines
No, it's very much like the atmosphere of the first movie -- EXCEPT that in a series, you get to see a lighter side to immortality, too. And we see less of the gruesome head-chopping scenes, too, which doesn't bother me at all.
Adrian Paul is Duncan Macleod. There are some other "regular" immortals, too, and my favorite (the one I watch to drool on) is the character of Methos. He has been a semi-regular for a few years now (evidently other people find him as interesting as I do), but was just added to the opening credits this season. I tell you this to explain how it is that I don't know the proper name of someone I drool over. Of course, you could just assume that I'm foggy on realities and you wouldn't be far off the mark.
Much better at loving a character than loving an actor. Although my husband is an actor (no, you wouldn't recognize his name). Maybe that's why-- I keep the actor and the character he/she plays very separate in my mind.
Anyway, thanks for being kind about my need to insert some Highlander drooling in the Bronte conference.
Lorie
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Response 22 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (16:24) * 1 lines
No problem! When does HIGHLANDER the series air? Sounds pretty interesting & I did love the first film so...though HIGHLANDER II was pretty darned bad. My friend wanted to hurt me for dragging her to that one....
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Response 23 of 62: Lorie Scafaro (LorieS) * Mon, Oct 20, 1997 (17:41) * 8 lines
Oh, and I forgot to mention that there is still Queen music, too, which we love. Highlander is a syndicated series, so it's not easy to tell you when/where it airs. In Chicago, it's on Channel 50 WPWR, Saturdays at 9 PM. However, the reruns air on USA, a cable channel, weeknights at 6 central. Good luck finding it. There are videos of the first couple of seasons, including the first episode which features the Highlander from the first movie (kind of passing the sword/torch). However, like most TV sh
ws the first season is background but doesn't get into the interesting ideas and fun concepts.
Oh, by the way, my actor whose name I couldn't remember is Peter Wingfield (I think).
Lorie
PS I have only seen the first movie, none of the movie sequels. For TV, the special effects are pretty good. Compared to a movie, probably pretty lame. But friends of mine who aren't sci-fi fans and found the show enjoy it. I hope you do, too.
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Response 24 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Tue, Oct 21, 1997 (12:36) * 2 lines
Sounds interesting. Yes, the film sequels to HIGHLANDER were dreadful, though I really like Christopher Lambert -- he has such an enticing STARE, doesn't he?
I will look through my TV TIMES & see if I can find the show in L.A. - they have to hit the #2 market in the country, you would think!
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Response 25 of 62: Lorie Scafaro (LorieS) * Tue, Oct 21, 1997 (17:21) * 3 lines
Oh, don't get me started here about men with interesting eyes. That's what drool is for!
I hope you can find the show. After thinking more about this, in some markets here in the midwest it is carried on WGN. The problem with TV is the same thing that makes it better -- there are too many stations, too many choices. Of course, without those would we be getting all these cool Jane Austen and Bronte dramatizations? Of course not. And a show like Highlander, which I believe is Canadian in origin, might not be seen here at all.
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Response 26 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Tue, Oct 21, 1997 (19:43) * 1 lines
I'm glad we have A&E, despite the odious recent "Jane Eyre." But I'll forgive them due to the great excellence of their P&P (which was shot by the BBC, of course).
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Response 27 of 62: Lorie Scafaro (LorieS) * Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (16:36) * 7 lines
Boy, Jane Eyre was a disappointment, wasn't it? I didn't see it until last night, but I was very disappointed in all the missing characters, scenes, etc. The only change I can approve was Mrs. Fairfax's role, which finally got to be a little more sympathetic/interesting. But some of the dialog was just horribly wrong for something called "Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre," wasn't it? Why not call it "A&E's Jane Eyre" if your script takes that many liberties?
Particularly disappointing was the Moor House section. Why oh why do all adaptations think the fact of Jane becoming independently wealthy and finding her own people is unimportant?
There's more to grouse about, but I'll leave some for the rest of you!
Lorie
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Response 28 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Wed, Oct 22, 1997 (19:12) * 43 lines
Don't get me started! I've already posted my rant to the Bronte list. Here it is:
Well....
Here's a harsh critique from someone in the industry --
I must say I thoroughly loathed this recent production of "Jane Eyre" &
couldn't make it past the first 1/2 hour...
My problems with the show:
1) Invented dialog. This reminds me of a friend who wrote a whole
script for a TV show & they ended up using four of his lines. I'm sure
Charlotte must feel the same way. I listened desperately for original
dialogue from the book & it was scant indeed - in fact, entire scenes
were invented out of whole cloth (plot was the same/dialogue had all
been replaced). Was there something wrong with Charlotte's original
dialogue? It struck me as a damned sight better than the dumbed-down
lines we were handed last night..
2) Poor direction. Moving the camera for no reason whatsoever. The
silly Red Room intro. which played more like Halloween Haunt at
Universal Studios...
3) Voiceovers. Usually the kiss of death -- they slow down the plot &
remove you from the action. Here, they were used as idiot prompts: "I
was very happy here." Or TOLD us about other characters instead of
showing us!!
4) Truncated length. Yes, Helen was dead 10 minutes in & Jane at
Thornfield 15 minutes in & seeing Bertha her first night there. So many
plot omissions at Gateshead & Lowood that nothing made sense anymore...
4) Ciaran Hinds. His look was bad; his acting was over-the-top.
5) Sam Morton. She was pleasant enough, but I don't think Jane would
have smiled slyly before being intro'd to Rochester. Where was the
contrast bet. the prim exterior & the heart on fire? I really think
that Zelah Clarke captured this much better.
6) Change of setting. WHY would Jane have been crawling around mists in
a river to fell Rochester's horse? Was she a mermaid?
In sum....blech. This was -not- "Charlotte Bronte's" Jane Eyre. It was
somebody else's who had no respect for Charlotte or her work.
I still think the BBC version with Tim Dalton is the best we have.
Adaptations like the one last night will ultimately hurt the book,
because those who haven't read it think that they've seen "Jane Eyre."
Which they haven't.
----
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Response 29 of 62: Lorie Scafaro (LorieS) * Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (12:49) * 5 lines
YES!
Thank you for saying Cirian was over the top so that I won't be the only one being crucified by the fans over in drool. I actually read posts that said people fell for him after seeing this version of Jane Eyre!!!;-Q (That's a mouth wide in amazement with a tongue out from saying "bleech!")
I did like Cirian Hinds in Persuasion, but felt that he was overly made up, overly weird (none of Rochester's lines were from the book, were they?), and that he was always contorting his mouth in an effort to Act. Again, bleech!
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Response 30 of 62: Lorie Scafaro (LorieS) * Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (12:56) * 8 lines
Oh, I had to rant a little more. Why do they even bother putting in anything about Jane's childhood when they're going to rush through it like that and not really tie any of it in? And the dialogue!!!
(amy2) It struck me as a damned sight better than the dumbed-down
lines we were handed last night..
Yes, yes, yes! What was with the prudish "I can't" when Rochester asked for her hand after the bed-burning? So often they seemed to miss the spirit of a scene and the point of it all. I read critics who felt that this Jane spoke up for herself more. It seemed to me that all she did was whine more and ask more questions, not really show any of Jane's originality.
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Response 31 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Thu, Oct 23, 1997 (14:20) * 4 lines
I didn't make it that far - I CAN'T BELIEVE they moved up the Proposal scene to the bed-burning incident!!
I agree with you about Gateshead & Lowood -- why even bother if you're going to race through in 10 minutes? And everything was so changed (Jane making her "I hate you" speech in front of Brocklehurst, for example) that OF COURSE, he's going to attack her publicly once she gets to Lowood! In the book, the charge was that she was A LIAR -- again, never mentioned in this truncated production!!
I also was a big Ciaran Hinds fan from PERSUASION & IVANHOE -- I thought he was just marvelous as Bois-Guilbert in the latter -- but yes, his look was repellent & he clearly hadn't read the book. I go back to my contention that this was the worst adaptation of a literary work I have ever seen. In the past, producers like David O. Selznick recognized the value of staying true to a well-loved novel (GONE WITH THE WIND comes to mind). I'm not saying you have to be slavishly faithful to the text, but for G
d's sake, use SOME of the original dialogue! What was so wrong with Charlotte's that it all had to be replaced by weaker, less poetic lines? This whole show was so ill-conceived I still can't believe it!! I did see a promo for A&E's TOM JONES though (with our own Mr. Bennet, Benjamin Whittrow, in the cast) & it looked good. A&E definitely needs to redeem itself in my eyes....
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Response 32 of 62: Elena Sheehan (Rochelle) * Mon, Nov 17, 1997 (20:11) * 36 lines
I've finally bought the 1992 WH version and watched it for the first time - alone
late at night with just the dogs and a few rum and cokes. I hadn't seen it before
now because I have been utterly unimpressed with the versions that have thus
far made it to screen (and for the equally sensible reason that I hadn't been
able to find a copy of it).
So who walks up on screen but Emily! Uhm, I'll assume it was Emily. As has been
pointed out, she goes unnamed in the credits. Anyway, she usurps Nelly's role as
narrator. An odd choice. Emily went out of the way to absent herself as an
authorial voice in the text - no "Dear reader" for her, or any other salutation.
She looked Emilyish, though.
No problems with the casting (I mean that, even though I suppose I'd be lynched
if I indicated otherwise on this page!) Camerawork good, music better. They
even came close accurately depicting the scene with Lockwood rubbing Cathy's
ghost's hand across the broken glass (betcha they'll never really show that
scene. One-hundred and fifty years later and people still shy away from aspects
of WH).
But it didn't sing for me. None of them ever have. They seem to pick up superficial
aspects of the text, and reduce it to plot elements. At least this one went a
bit further in adapting junks of dialogue than past token efforts at the
occasional "Nelly, I am Heathcliff" lines. There was even a vague sort of recognition
that scenes of their childhood have a significance in the glimpse we catch of
Cathy's ghost as a child at the end. Emily had a reason for having Cathy return
to haunt the hights as the ghost of a child! Childhood lost haunts them in their
adult lives.
At least it didn't have an absurd ending like the Laurence Olivier version -
he's dead....no, they have only just begun to live! And off they go into the
driven snow. Hear that spinning sound? That's Emily in her grave!
I think people will always shrink from the power of WH, while they are attracted
to the more romantic elements. So film producers will take what they can,
tone down the rest, and thus continue to bowlderise the greatest novel in the
English language.
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Response 33 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Tue, Nov 18, 1997 (11:17) * 2 lines
Absolutely. In fact, that "happy ghost" ending was added to the 1939 version of WH -against- the wishes of the director, William Wyler. We have Samuel Goldwyn to thank for that one. . .
I think that most people have a misconception about what WH is. It is NOT merely a great romance -- I don't think that moviegoers are aware of the brutal, disturbing, almost Satanic elements in the book. And most film versions of WH focus entirely on the Heathcliff/Cathy romance angle, ignoring completely the next generation, which is like what? -- at least half the book?
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Response 34 of 62: Elena Sheehan (Rochelle) * Tue, Nov 18, 1997 (18:01) * 8 lines
I didn't know that about the ending of the 1939 version. It was just so
absurd it coloured the rest of the movie for me. The "Mills and Boom" rendition
of the novel is very frustrating, because it shortchanges Emily's vision alarmingly.
It's interesting to note that as the 19th Century progressed the minor literary
scene was littered with wannabe Rochesters and to a lesser extent Heathcliffes.
The trend continues to this day. It's evidence of people responding to the power
of these works, but some of the knockoffs and interpretations are just so
laughable...
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Response 35 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Wed, Nov 19, 1997 (19:56) * 1 lines
You could almost say that Charlotte & Emily inspired women's romance fiction as we know it today. Just to play devil's advocate as far as the ending of the '39 WH: IF Emily didn't believe that Catherine & Heathcliff were quiet sleepers in that earth, then did SHE have a vision of their roaming the moors together? Or if C. & H. they still walk, was she thinking of an otherworldly context? I wonder...
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Response 36 of 62: Lorie Scafaro (LorieS) * Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (15:54) * 5 lines
The amount of superstition in the family is worth a look, isn't it? We know that Charlotte refers to Bessie in JE telling stories of local haunts (Jane initially thinks Pilot is an apparition, tho I forget the name). Was this based on Tabby or someone else in the household who told such "forbidden" (by the very religious Aunt) stories? And despite religious beliefs that hold such superstitions wrong, how much did any of them believe what they'd been told?
Speaking as someone raised in a religious AND superstitious family, I know that even as you mature, some of the things you're told as a child are still very vivid.
Of course, the book's final line would seem to quash the question. But it ISN'T Emily narrating, is it? It isn't even someone she admires.
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Response 37 of 62: Elena Sheehan (Rochelle) * Thu, Nov 20, 1997 (23:56) * 42 lines
I think I've mentioned before that one of the memorable aspects of WH is the
fact that it refuses closure...unless you want it. Emily offers that ending,
a beautifully poetic and resonant ending, and you can take that if you like.
But there is the other interpretation, that they walk, and that is equally
valid. There is even an irony in asking how anyone could imagine unquiet slumbers
for the sleepers in that quiet earth. Well, of course you can imagine it! Like
the dream/vision of Cathy's ghost...is it bad tea and bad temper, or is it
her? Emily, as usual, lets you choose your own path. She gives you nothing on
a platter.
The conclusion to the 1939 is too explicit, too...well, corny. It looks like
a very bizarre version of the happy ending. The film really couldn't conclude
with the lovers united in life, so they unite them in death. While the idea
of Cathy and Healthcliffe still walking the earth finds its origin in the
novel, the movie lacks all deftness in dealing with the suggestion. A movie
might not be able to acheive the subtle ambiguities of a novel, but this was
as understated as a sledgehammer. Even my father, a lover of old movies and
a fan of Olivier, said he laughed as a boy watching that.
One of the few aspects of the Dalton version that I liked were the glimpses
of Cathy in white, flitting over the dark moors, at the end of the story. It's
a shame it condensed the timeframe so much that you didn't get a sense of a man
haunted for twenty years.
Emily was comfortable with Gothic conventions - she seems to have had an affinity
with Sturm und Drang, and the "mad methodist" magazines of her Aunt Branwell.
Combine that with the tales of Tabby and her own Celtic heritage, and the
supernatural in her work comes as no surprise. Ghosts are quite common in the
Gondal cycle. I think she favoured the supernatural alternatives in her novel,
but provided other explanations for the less mystical among her potential
readership.
I've always been mesmerised by the little clues she left as to how it all fits
together, and how we should read it. Lockwood sees Cathy's ghost as a child.
Cathy, when she's delirious, wishes to be a girl again. At the same time she
imagine she sees her window at the Heights where Joeseph has left a candle for
her. Does she somehow see, or project herself into, the future haunting at the
Heights while she is still alive, and - through her illness - more aware of
the non-physical plane? She speaks to Heatcliffe, who is not there, saying
that if he ventures to the graveyard she will keep him and not rest until he
is with her. This is precisely what happens...he ventures, and she will not
rest. How could Heatcliffe have known she had made that declaration?
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Response 38 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Fri, Nov 21, 1997 (18:52) * 1 lines
I see your point about the '39 WH ending, Elena. No, you certainly couldn't say it was subtle, but Emily certainly leaves the reunion of Heathcliff & Cathy up in the air in those ambiguous lines at the end of the book. Remember too that it is LOCKWOOD speaking, & he throws his own particular slant upon their ultimate fates. We don't know whether he's serious or being sardonic...
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Response 39 of 62: Elena Sheehan (Rochelle) * Sun, Nov 23, 1997 (17:32) * 7 lines
Rereading WH yesterday down at the beach - one of the dozen or so editions
of the book I have goes with me everywhere - I was struck anew by the choices
Emily made in who narrated her novel. Lockwood really is an unperceptive fop,
and Nelly a nasty, talebearing piece of work. No wonder they got along so well.
I've almost come round to the extreme view that Nelly is the villain of the
novel. I think Emily wanted us to dig for the story, to interpret what we
were hearing from the narrators.
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Response 40 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (11:29) * 1 lines
Some people on the Bronte list were also bandying about the idea that Nelly is a villain. And Lockwood really is dense, isn't he? To the extend that he toys with getting involved with Young Cathy while knowing (most) of Heathcliff's history. Scary!
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Response 41 of 62: Elena Sheehan (Rochelle) * Mon, Nov 24, 1997 (22:26) * 2 lines
I used to think the idea was too extreme. Now, the Nelly as villain idea is
becoming more and more appealing!
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Response 42 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Tue, Nov 25, 1997 (11:45) * 1 lines
I never liked her because she effectively let Cathy Sr. die by pooh-poohing her illness. That really turned the tide for me.
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Response 43 of 62: Lorie Scafaro (LorieS) * Fri, Nov 28, 1997 (16:05) * 1 lines
Certainly Nellie can be seen as helping along the disaster, rather than truly helping her mistress. Why, except financially, would she be siding with newcomer Linton rather than taking the side of someone she grew up with? Yes, she's not the innocent she claims.
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Response 44 of 62: Elena Sheehan (Rochelle) * Mon, Dec 1, 1997 (00:56) * 7 lines
Yes, that whole taking the Lintons' part in everything got to me, too. Did
anyone else sense she was jealous of Cathy? And even knowing how abominably
Hindley treated Hareton, she still thinks of him as a lost sheep, while
Healthcliffe is the wolf circling between him and the fold. Heathcliffe is
certainly wolfish, but Hindley is at least as wayward, only he is weak. Even
Isabella, in her foolishness, is forgiven and still loved. Her dislike for
Cathy shines through her entire narrative.
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Response 45 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Mon, Dec 1, 1997 (15:08) * 1 lines
Do you think that Nellie has it out for Young Cathy as well? She certainly turns a blind eye to Heathcliff's machinations to marry her off....
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Response 46 of 62: Elena Sheehan (Rochelle) * Tue, Dec 2, 1997 (23:34) * 5 lines
I don't think she was as responsible as she should have been. After all, she
was in charge of a naive young girl.
I think Nelly spent a good portion of the narrative justifying her actions
and attitudes. She doesn't exactly accept responsibility for her mistakes.
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Response 47 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Wed, Dec 3, 1997 (17:53) * 1 lines
That's true. She does spend quite a bit of time justifying herself to Lockwood. And she never really takes responsibility for Cathy I's death after she dismissed her symptoms as a "snit."
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Response 48 of 62: Melissa Pearce (melissa) * Mon, Mar 16, 1998 (00:48) * 13 lines
This whole discussion reads like a good book club meeting! I have a bad habit
of taking the narrator's word as truth when I read a book and not looking
beyond that for other motives (which is why I have yet to figure out an Agatha
Christie plot). I'm reading WH for my book club this month and Cathy's just
died. But now I have a new angle on Nelly to carry through the rest of the book.
In Nelly's defense, though, she's lived with Cathy for a long time and has
seen her manipulate people. She may not have realized Cathy would go this far
to prove a point. I can't think of a soul who could throw a fit that would prove
ultimately fatal.
Thanks for the insight!
Melissa
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Response 49 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Tue, Mar 17, 1998 (11:22) * 3 lines
Yes, that whole "dying for love" thing reminds me of a medieval 'romans'!
Like poor Elaine of Astolat pining away for her Lancelot. . .
I tend not to like Nelly -- I don't trust her. I think she may be an example of an unreliable narrator.
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Response 50 of 62: Melissa Pearce (melissa) * Wed, Mar 18, 1998 (01:26) * 4 lines
She does seem to throw in several comments about herself that are not flattering, though, and that seems to give her more credence. She often wonders that she may be to blame for some of the trouble. So I can see her as unreliable better than I can see her as diabolical. I wonder if she was jealous of Catherine (the elder)? We never hear about her love life, although she's referred to as Mrs. Dean. It certainly doesn't seem that she herself pined for Heathcliff or Edgar, but maybe watching one petulant wo
an fawned over by two men was a bit much for her.
Anyway, I know that many times when one member of an elderly married couple dies, the other soon follows, so I can believe in dying of a broken heart. Cathy just seemed to destroy herself out of spite to make the men suffer. I'd like to count the number of times the word "suffer" appears in the text -- quite a vindictive bunch of folks for such a small town.
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Response 51 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (17:13) * 1 lines
Yes. I thought that Cathy the Elder's death was taken a bit too much from literature and not enough from real life -- women pining away for love until they cause their own death is like something out of a medieval tale to me. And why did Cathy -really- destroy herself? Simply to prevent a quarrel bet. Edgar & Heathcliff? Or was it because she couldn't choose? She came off like an overgrown, petulant child to me, but perhaps this was Emily's point. . .
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Response 52 of 62: Melissa Pearce (melissa) * Fri, Mar 20, 1998 (00:59) * 7 lines
Someone has put forth a theory about the significance of all these characters
being raised without mothers. So for Cathy to fit that mold, Catherine had to
die. Still, you'd think she'd throw herself from the Crags instead of missing a few meals and losing her mind. She certainly had no regard for her unborn
child, and never seemed to mention it. Can you imagine what that
mother/daughter relationship would have been like? And I still have a hard time believing that Heathcliff could inflict so much pain on Catherine's child, no
matter who the father was. I guess that just drives home the point that their
passion had absolutely no regard for ANYONE else or anyone else's rules.
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Response 53 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Fri, Mar 20, 1998 (13:08) * 1 lines
I too found it odd that Heathcliff could be so cruelly manipulative toward his Great Love's progeny. Didn't he see Cathy I in her? I also particularly hated the way he dealt with Hareton and Linton the younger. . .
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Response 54 of 62: Mamie (Mamie) * Thu, Mar 26, 1998 (14:01) * 6 lines
Hi everyone
I don't have anything too profound to say except that I too thought this film was excellent. I felt it captured the "hauntingness" of the novel and Ralph Fiennes was absolutely gorgeous and entirely believable as Heathcliff. I thought Binoche excellent too.
The music was so eerie. Does anyone know if this is available on CD?
Mamie
ps who was the narrator?
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Response 55 of 62: Merry (merry) * Mon, Mar 30, 1998 (13:09) * 4 lines
Mamie,
You can order the cd online from I.D. International Disc (based out of North Carolina, I believe); the e-mail address is idintl@worldnet.att.net, and the total cost of the cd with shipping is around $33. It's a Japanese import, so it will take a while to get there, but I imagine it will be well worth it (mine is on the way).
I assume you are talking about the character I took to be Emily Bronte when you say "the narrator"; if it is voiced by the same person that played her, I believe the woman in question is Sinead O'Connor, of all people. Her performance was uncredited, but I remember having read somewhere that she was Emily Bronte in the movie.
-Merry
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Response 56 of 62: Anne L. Wells (Molina) * Mon, Mar 30, 1998 (15:14) * 2 lines
Yes, Emily Bronte is played by Sinead O'Connor. I saw it on the internet movie Database file on the film.
Thanks for the info on where I can buy the soundtrack. I've been looking for it forever. I thought it didn't exist.
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Response 57 of 62: Mamie (Mamie) * Mon, Mar 30, 1998 (15:30) * 8 lines
Hi Merry (& Anne)
Thanks for all the info. I live in England so the price etc will be different. I'll mail that company anyway as you've been kind enough to include their email address. Enjoy your CD when it arrives!
Sinead O'Connor must have had to wear a wig or grow her hair. The last time I saw a picture of her she was bald!!!
Mamie
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Response 58 of 62: Amy Wolf (amy2) * Wed, Apr 1, 1998 (18:30) * 1 lines
Wow, Sinead O'Connor as Emily! Sounds like it's worth renting just for this!!
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Response 59 of 62: Mamie (Mamie) * Sat, Apr 4, 1998 (10:41) * 3 lines
Hi Amy
I'm sure you'd like this version. By the way there is another new version of WH on the telly tomorrow night. I'm sure I'll be glued to the screen. I'll let you know what it's like.
Mamie
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Response 60 of 62: Anne L. Wells (Molina) * Sat, Apr 4, 1998 (23:33) * 3 lines
Yes, the the Ralph Fiennes version of Wuthering Heights is wonderful. My
copy is my most prizes possession, despite the fact that I've watched it so
many times my copy is starting to degrade.
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Response 61 of 62: Mamie (Mamie) * Sat, Apr 4, 1998 (23:33) * 3 lines
Hi everyone
Well I saw the ITV version on the telly the other week and was not at all impressed. How do you get to see these versions in america?
Mamie
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Response 62 of 62: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Mon, Sep 7, 1998 (08:42) * 1 lines
Any reports on this video?
bronte conference 
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