Topic 14 of 55: ART - our only birthright.
Sat, Aug 8, 1998 (04:55) |
Riette Walton (riette)
The paintings on the walls of the Altamira caves in northern Spain were the first to be discovered in modern times (around 1880, I think). They were painted by our Palaeolithic ancestors, between 30 000 and 8 000 BC. And besides the fact that these Stone Age cave dwellers were small and hairy and unlettered, their art is evidence that these simple creatures were creative and needed to express themselves as we do today.
The most famous of these first paintings are a bison, and two wounded bison attacking a man, and they were painted around 15000-10000 BC.
27 responses total.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 1 of 27: Riette Walton (riette) * Sat, Aug 8, 1998 (04:56) * 1 lines
I will try to find examples of the above mentioned paintings, and post them here, together with some comments. I find them quite extraordinary.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 2 of 27: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Sun, Aug 9, 1998 (07:11) * 3 lines
Have you visited some of these sites. What is the most famous, Lescaux or
something like that?
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 3 of 27: Riette Walton (riette) * Sun, Aug 9, 1998 (08:30) * 3 lines
The Lascaux caves in the Dordogne, France, is the more famous of the two - probably because of where it's situated. I believe the Altamira caves are a little more difficult to get to. Sadly I haven't visited either of these sights myself, but the way it looks, I'll be in Europe longer than I thought, so I've not given up hope.
Anyway, the painting in the Lascaux caves is of two wounded bison attacking a man - I've got a photo right in front of me. I'll post it to Wer to put in so everyone can see. What strikes me about it is the great naturalism and anatomical accuracy with which the bison is portrayed. The man in it, however is more of a stick man, almost symbolical inits representation. And there's a bird in the painting too - I can't quite work out why or whether it is perhaps a kind of symbol or banner, or what function
it fulfills.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 4 of 27: Autumn Moore (autumn) * Sun, Aug 9, 1998 (22:42) * 1 lines
What I find fascinating about the cave art in Lascaux is that they had the foresight way back in the 60s (70s?) to reseal the cave so it wouldn't be further damaged by light, humidity, etc., thereby depriving the world of the great paintings for the good of the art. So noble!
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 5 of 27: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Sun, Aug 9, 1998 (23:10) * 2 lines
Noble indeed, and fortunate that the long haul was considered.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 6 of 27: Autumn Moore (autumn) * Sun, Aug 9, 1998 (23:17) * 1 lines
It struck me as so incongruous with the times...makes you wonder what shape they'd be in today if allowed to be exploited (or, God forbid, if they were located in another country that wasn't so forward-thinking)?
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 7 of 27: Riette Walton (riette) * Mon, Aug 10, 1998 (01:16) * 7 lines
Absolutely. And thank you for raising that point, Autumn. That is exactly what I want. Not only to talk about how wonderful the art is, but how to preserve it, and keep it safe for nations to come.
Another thing which is truly fascinating about these paintings is HOW they were done, and how creative their artists were even in that. Aparrently they painted the lines by blowing the paint through a hollow reed onto the wall of the cave. To make coloured paint they used ochre, which could be crushed to powder consisting of red, brown and yellow pigments, while black (so historians assume) will have been made from charcoal powder. These powdered pigments were rubbed onto the wall with the hands to pro
uce tones not unlike the pastels we have today. Mixed with animal fat or other forms of binding fluids, and applied with reed or bristle brushes, they achieved the brighter colours. The means were simple, the effect overwhelming.
And while we are ignorant of the meaning of the painting (the symolized elements in it suggest that there must be a deeper meaning, perhaps ritualistic), this prehistoric art is representative of all art to come.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 8 of 27: Wolf (wolf) * Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (12:08) * 3 lines
and other ancient art such as marking the body, painful as it is, many fading
tribes still mark their bodies ritualistically in the same manner as their ancestors
before them. can't give any examples cuz i saw it on discovery awhile back. i found it fascinating.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 9 of 27: Riette Walton (riette) * Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (12:59) * 1 lines
I didn't know that - sounds very interesting. I'll try and find out about it.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 10 of 27: Autumn Moore (autumn) * Tue, Aug 11, 1998 (15:54) * 1 lines
I'm always amazed at the elaborate tattooing the New Zealand Maori tribe performs.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 11 of 27: wer (KitchenManager) * Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (00:18) * 2 lines
did you also know that the final tattoo performed can at times
result in death? It is the one done around the belly button.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 12 of 27: Riette Walton (riette) * Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (00:59) * 3 lines
Not a thing I ever wish to experience - I don't like being in pain for no reason at all.
In Namibia there is also some prehistoric rock engravings to be found. Twyfelfontein is a particularly magnificent site of rock engravings (more accurately called, petroglyphs). Many experts now believe that the rock artists of southern Africa were producing paintings at the same time as, if not earlier tahn, the rock artists of Altamira and Lascaux.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 13 of 27: wer (KitchenManager) * Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (14:53) * 5 lines
Wounded
bison attacking man
Lascaux caves 15,000-10,000BC
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 14 of 27: Riette Walton (riette) * Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (15:48) * 7 lines
°BEAMING!!°
Thank you, Wer!! Being your mistress is my Joy ....
What immediately strikes one about this cave painting is that the bison is indeed very accurately painted (especially if you consider the primitive means), whereas the man and the bird seem of almost no importance at all. Experts think that the bison might have been a sacred animal to these ancient cave painters.
But the bird bothers me. Why the long line where the claws should be?
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 15 of 27: wer (KitchenManager) * Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (15:53) * 1 lines
water bird like a stork or flamingo, maybe...
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 16 of 27: Riette Walton (riette) * Wed, Aug 12, 1998 (16:09) * 8 lines
I don't know, Wer - if they could portray the bison so accurately, why do a stork or flamingo so totally INaccurately? They were obviously very observant - surely they'd be capable of painting a long neck and beak? I'm wondering if the bird acts as a symbol of some sort. To me it looks like it's sitting on a stick. But why? Hey, a thought just came to me, and you're going to laugh at it - for it stands in no book.
I'm thinking that perhaps the painter was trying to teach his fellow tribesmen a lesson:
Perhaps the hunter first managed to kill a bird - hence the stick. Then he sees the mighty bison quivering with power and magnificence. The painter painted the bird small and insignificant, while the bison seems almost alive with strength and greatness. This illustrates what the hunter felt: he wanted to take home the great bison, not the silly bird. So he sets out to kill the bison, and win the admiration of the other men - and especially the women, of course. And this is where the painter teaches
s a lesson. The hunter is attacked, and killed by the beautiful animal he wanted to kill, but didn't respect. He is flung into the air by its magnificent horns, and falls to the ground where perhaps he is trampled to death; he dies for his vanity and greed.
This is only my feeling right now as I look at it - a very personal interpretation of something several thousand years beyond my reach, so feel free to disagree.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 17 of 27: Autumn Moore (autumn) * Fri, Aug 14, 1998 (21:58) * 1 lines
For some reason, I could look at that picture all day.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 18 of 27: Riette Walton (riette) * Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (01:08) * 1 lines
I know what you mean. I really makes you think.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 19 of 27: wer (KitchenManager) * Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (11:34) * 1 lines
yes, sometimes you do...
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 20 of 27: Riette Walton (riette) * Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:04) * 3 lines
What's that supposed to mean, muffin!?
I don't think often?
I suppose not.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 21 of 27: wer (KitchenManager) * Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:12) * 4 lines
nope, you said,
"I really makes you think."
so I said,
"yes, sometimes you do..."
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 22 of 27: Riette Walton (riette) * Sat, Aug 15, 1998 (13:42) * 4 lines
ha-ha!!! Didn't even realize I made that mistake!
You're in one hilarious mood today - not good for a person suffering from incessant giggling fits!
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 23 of 27: Riette Walton (riette) * Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (04:28) * 9 lines
Time for our second bison, I think.
Bison from Altamira Cave
c. 15,000-12,000 BC
The paintings on the walls of these caves were the first to be discovered in modern times - 1879. The discovery had such fundamental implications for archaeology that it was at first dismissed as a forgery. The bison is painted on the ceiling of a narrow corridor leading from a subterranean cave in Altamira. In fact, a whole herd of animals surges majestically across the roof of the cave, one animal overlapping another; bison, horses, boars, mammoths, and other creatures, all the desired quarry of the
Stone Age hunters.
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 24 of 27: Wolf (wolf) * Tue, Aug 18, 1998 (21:55) * 1 lines
this is really good!
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 25 of 27: Riette Walton (riette) * Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (01:10) * 1 lines
Yes, I love the reddish colour in which this one is painted. I'm trying to find photos of the rest of the herd, but haven't been successful yet. I'm dying to see what the whole thing looks like. Have any of you been?
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 26 of 27: Autumn Moore (autumn) * Wed, Aug 19, 1998 (14:12) * 1 lines
I'd love to see a woolly mammoth!
Topic 14 of 55 [art]: ART - our only birthright.
Response 27 of 27: Riette Walton (riette) * Thu, Aug 20, 1998 (01:28) * 1 lines
Me too! And to think that the artist will have seen one for real!
art gallery 
Main Menu
