Topic 24 of 39: Land Bruisers
Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (08:15) |
El Sam Blob (Afor)
This topic is about off-road vehicles, the Dual Purposes of the automotive world. Everything from the Jeep to the Meyers Manx to the AM General Hummer. If it can drive from the main street through the marsh to the mountain, then talk about it here.
34 responses total.
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 1 of 34: El Sam Blob (Afor) * Sun, Dec 21, 1997 (08:25) * 7 lines
And to think that this started out of a conversation in the "Motorcycles" conference about the Chevroler Suburban, which hardly ever sees any off-road use...
To me, the three classic off-road vehicles are: Jeep, currently made by the Jeep-Eagle division of the Chrysler Corporation; Land Rover, currently made by the Rover subsidiary of BMW, and Land Cruiser, currently made by Toyota. Broncos and Jimmys and Suburbans don't cut it to me.
A new classic, which came to us in almost exactly the same way the Jeep did, is the AM General Hummer. HWWMV is a lot harder to pronounce than GP, therefore Hummer doesn't sound as much like the original as Jeep does.
And, of course, there's the Meyers Manx and its clones, which is to the other extreme of not deserving the title "Sport Utility Vehicle"; unlike the others, that have too little sport, the dune buggy has too little utility! But I STILL WANT ONE!!!
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 2 of 34: Frank Susca (Cafe) * Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (09:53) * 2 lines
Chompf! I grab the bait....
By too little utility do you mean cargo considerations? I could agree there. But in terms of raw road capability in any weather, a well set up "buggy" is hard to beat for the money. See "US Special Forces".
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 3 of 34: El Sam Blob (Afor) * Mon, Dec 22, 1997 (21:05) * 7 lines
Frank: By too little utility do you mean cargo considerations?
Absolutely!
The road capability is what I was talking of as the "sport" part...
I'm sure that the Special Forces don't use their buggies to tow gun carriages, which can be done by Jeeps (in some cases). (BTW did you ever see the movie Nobody's Perfekt?)
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 4 of 34: Frank Susca (Cafe) * Tue, Dec 23, 1997 (11:30) * 3 lines
Never saw the movie. Sam for years the SEALS & "others" have been using both Manx-type bodied buggies and Chenowth designed rail-type buggies with slightly juiced motors rigged with all kinds of ordnance, from 30cal. LAWs to 50cal longrange snipe guns, and rocket launchers. While specialized, these babies are constructed to be reliable above all rather than rods. In Desert Storm they went to some mid-engined configs for a little more stability. It's amazing what you can do with a well thought out rollcage
While I can't carry a whole lot from Home Depot, I can carry 4 people and weekend gear in most any weather & road condition. No it's not a Jeep, but for the money it'll fool you.
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 5 of 34: El Sam Blob (Afor) * Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (11:04) * 7 lines
In terms of cargo capability, how does it compare to the average car? (Nearly said "cage", forgot that I'm in the wrong conference for that!)
Most SUV's have too much cargo capability to be really sporting.
Anyway, the buggies have taken off-roading in a different direction from the usual SUVs.
BTW, how many of those Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, Oldsmobile, Mercury, Lincoln and Mercedes-Benz SUVs will ever leave the pavement IYO?
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 6 of 34: Frank Susca (Cafe) * Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (11:13) * 2 lines
The average car and SUV have more and better defined cargo capacity I guess. And these luxo-SUV's, you *know* they're always spotless and well-pampered, much like the owner! Off-road? Toooo scary!
Parked next to a Lincoln Navigator Sunday doing some last minute shopping, an absolute monster! Owner came out, a guy about my age, looked decent, and asked me what the buggy was, he'd never seen anything like it! I briefly explained and said it was one of the cars that started the off-road-for-everybody fad he couldn't believe it was legit. Too naked & noisy, etc. I love it!
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 7 of 34: El Sam Blob (Afor) * Wed, Dec 24, 1997 (11:40) * 3 lines
Why do folks like that buy SUVs anyway? How did the fad start? When did the Range Rover get a following? As far as I know, the Range Rover was built for British and colonial country gentlemen who wanted luxury cars that could actually get to their estate houses through the mud & pasture (or the Serengeti, as the case may be). When did Yuppies take an interest?
I bet that guy in the Navigator never heard of Steve McQueen, either!
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 8 of 34: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (12:26) * 5 lines
I'm buying a sport utility in January, should I get a Ford
or the new Lincoln, or? or?
Can I get some help making this decision?
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 9 of 34: El Sam Blob (Afor) * Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (18:31) * 5 lines
Wot, given up on minivans?
What do you need to do with the SUV? WHat kind of cargo are you moving, and over what terrain? THat's the kind of thing that determines whether you want a Sidekick or a Hummer (oh, yes, and price...)
What good is a Mercury, Lincoln Oldsmobile, Acura, Lexus etc. etc. SUV anyway? Ret 'em! They're just luxurified versions of the lower priced models and aren't any better on or off road. Get the Ford or GMC or Toyota etc. versions. As for Honda/Acura, forget 'em completely and go Isuzu; except for the CR-V (which isn't much) Honda's SUVs are all Isuzus anyway (but Isuzu's minivan is a Honda, so...)
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 10 of 34: El Sam Blob (Afor) * Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (18:32) * 1 lines
For "Ret 'em!" read "Rot 'em!"
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 11 of 34: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Sat, Dec 27, 1997 (22:44) * 2 lines
Probably the Ford suv would be the best bet. This years or used?
What are the pros and cons?
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 12 of 34: Frank Susca (Cafe) * Sun, Dec 28, 1997 (11:54) * 1 lines
I don't have time at this moment terry but I'll be back. general budget's important. Check http://edmunds.com for wonderful comparison info on anything you're interested in. Kiplinger's financial magazine also has great info on leases vs. finance. etc.
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 13 of 34: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Sat, Mar 14, 1998 (08:14) * 53 lines
A lot of folks never see a dirt road with these 'utes. I would. I
live on a rough dirt road. Maybe folks just like the altitude they afford
and getting to look down on everyone.
What is the value of a sport 'ute?
I guess they're pretty versatile; but at this stage I've always opted
for a van because they seem even more versatile as far as seating and
headroom and hauling capability. But then I've never owned a sports
'ute. There's a barrier here for me, somehow. In the back of my
mind I feel cheated because I don't have one. And I lust whenever I see the
Lincoln Navigator ad; seduced by Madison Avenues vision of luxury and
ruggedness. I my heart, I feel like a Ford Sport 'ute would be the
way to go, and not necessarily a brand new one.
Continuing. I probably won't get a brand new one because of price.
They're obscenely high priced. So why do people, mostly urban,
yuppie cowboys, plop down this obscene cash?
They're practical for hauling kids and building materials.
They give you a feeling of power, they're gutsy. And many folks feel
powerless in their daily routines. And they can at least feel
powerful going to and from their jobs.
Owning a van or station wagon is a symbol of middle aged mediocrity
to some (not me).
Everyone has fantasies about zooming off to the backwoods, whether
they ever do or not is irrelevant, the feeling that you have a vehicle
you could take off to the mountains in is comforting.
They're seductive looking, the ads like the Lincoln Navigator play on
this, the bulbous Mercedes falls in this category.
And to top it all off, there's now a Lambourghini SUV, Car and Driver
calls it the Rambo Lambo. Tops out at 150 mph. Ugly. Nasty.
Beyond obscene.
http://home.lamborghini.com/main/models/maps/LM_topmenu.map?82,16
So, now here's where I drag it to the mundane, what's best? And what
year?
Ford? Chevy? Dodge? or Jeep?
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 14 of 34: Frank Susca (Cafe) * Sat, Mar 14, 1998 (10:30) * 3 lines
Navigators are all wrong for even rough roads. Mushy and bulky, they give the owner the ego-based perception that he "takes it all on". BTW, Ford will produce an even bigger monster next year than the Navigator or Suburban, just to say they have the Biggest! Most SUVs are modern-daystation wagons with a taller outview. And they work OK in the rougher (dirt) roads, but off-road/in-woods-rocks, forget it.
The LM(?) was/is a limited product a few years ago, Lambo motor with someone's bodywork, called the Forza. Started at $70K, see them now in the papers every so often for $35K. A V12 in an offroader? Yeah *that* makes sense!
Thanks for posting Terry.
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 15 of 34: (annaliviaplurabe0) * Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (20:00) * 7 lines
what about the little toyota rav 4,
or that teensie one by kia?
(and please sir, please may i see the
phony boswell stuff?)
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 16 of 34: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Thu, Mar 19, 1998 (20:44) * 2 lines
The phony boswell stuff is in the internet conference.
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 17 of 34: Frank Susca (Cafe) * Sat, Mar 21, 1998 (08:44) * 3 lines
"phoney boswell.."?
The RAV is well built but has no rear-end protection and a weak motor.
"Verge" magazine has a very nice comparison chart of all sizws/models of SUVs this issue, check it out.
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 18 of 34: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Sat, Mar 21, 1998 (15:08) * 5 lines
boswell is a WELLbeing who is being impersonated by another WELLbeing
on the Spring, if that makes any sense.
Resume your normal Land Bruiser discussion.
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 19 of 34: Sam Blob (AlFor) * Sun, Jun 23, 2002 (13:37) * 114 lines
Resuming over four years later...
I have been looking through the Road & Track Pickup/Van/SUV Buyer's Guide 2002 for my inexperienced "Picks & Pans".
Picks:
Compact pickup trucks: Tough and relatively inexpensive if one is stingy enough...:
Chevrolet S-10/GMC Sonoma
Ford Ranger/Mazda Truck
Nissan Frontier
Toyota Tacoma (ugly, but should that matter?)
Others I like:
AM General H1 - I have no use for it, I have no money to buy it with, but WHAT A MACHINE!!! Arr arr arr...
Chevrolet Astro/GMC Safari - MY kind of minivan!
Chrysler Voyager/Dodge Caravan - The evolution of the original minivan, not really flawed, and therefore deserving of some credit.
Chrysler PT Cruser - this is actually not in R&Ts van buyers guide, but it is really a micro-van and it is just plain COOL!!!!
Isuzu Rodeo Sport - interesting
Jeep Wrangler - The real thing. If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand.
Kia Sportage - Real enough to be up here with the Vitara.
Land Rover Discovery Series II - The evolution of the classic Land Rover.
Nissan Pathfinder - I just have a soft spot for Pathfinders and 4Runners...
Nissan XTerra - Inexpensive compared to Pathfinder/4Runner, yet real (i.e. truck-based and truck tough).
Subaru Forester - How can one not love the serendipity of a SUV based on the station wagon that challenges the purpose and philosophy of SUVs in general?
Suzuki Vitara/Chevrolet Tracker - Real off-road capability in 4wd versions; small, yet real.
Toyota 4Runner - See Nissan Pathfinder for reasons...
Toyota Land Cruiser - Real enough to not be panned, but too big and expensive for me to really call it a "Pick"... aw, hell; if the Hummer is up here then why not?
Pans:
ALL upscale pickup trucks, including:
Cadillac Escalade EXT - What the hell were they thinking?
Chevrolet Avalance - Gimmick-mobile
Ford Explorer Sport Trac - Make up your MIND! Do you want an SUV or a pickup?!
GMC Sierra Denali (Denali = luxury)
Lincoln Blackwood
All upscale-nameplate SUVs, including:
Acura MDX
Cadillac Escalade/Escalade EXT
GMC Yukon Denali (GMC isn't upscale!? No, but the DENALI versions sure are!)
Infiniti QX4
Lexus LX470 - Who wants a softened Land Cruiser?
Lexus RX300 - Upscale nameplate AND car based! Yuck!
Lincoln Navigator
Oldsmobile Bravada
Car-based SUVs, including:
BMW X5 (BMW doesn't have a downscale division, so I didn't put this in the previous list)
Buick Rendezvous/Pontiac Aztek
Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute
Honda CR-V
Hyundai Santa Fe
Saturn VUE
Toyota Highlander
Toyota RAV4
Volvo XC90
Vehicles that suck for other reasons:
AM General H2 - a cynical marketing exercise
Ford Excursion - TOO D*MN BIG!!!!
Isuzu Axiom - looks really shouldn't matter but D*MN!!!!
Jeep Liberty - Would have been in "Undecided" if it hadn't replaced the Cherokee, which was a "Pick"!
Mercedes-Benz ML-Class - Despite M-B's efforts it's just not real, especially since they already had the Gelandewagen when they designed this glorified station-wagon...
Undecided:
Full-size vans - too big for me, but useful for their purpose:
Chevrolet Express/GMC Savana
Ford Econoline
Dodge Ram Van/Ram Wagon - The Ram Wagon 1500 might be a good (big) alternative to the Chevy Astro/GMC Safari, but it's comparatively thirsty and unrefined for slightly less money (the extra weight and 3-speed auto would eventually suck the cost difference out in petrol, I guess...)
Volkswagen EuroVan - More economical (good), front drive (not so good for cargo applications...)
Full-size pickups - again, too big for me, but useful for their purpose:
Chevrolet Silverado & Silverado HD/GMC Sierra & Sierra HD
Dodge Ram 1500 (new model, ugly)
Dodge Ram 2500 & 3500 (old model, better looking, will change to ugly new model next year)
Ford F-150
Ford Super Duty F-250/F-350
Toyota Tundra
Full-size & medium-size SUVs once again... well, you get the idea... (actually, there will be some missing from this list 'coz I just like them or I just don't...):
Chevrolet Suburban/GMC Yukon XL
Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon
Chevrolet TrailBlazer/GMC Envoy & Envoy XL
Dodge Durango
Ford Expedition
Ford Explorer/Mercury Mountaineer
Isuzu Rodeo/Honda Passport
Isuzu Trooper (I am leaning toward "Pick" for this one...)
Jeep Grand Cherokee
Land Rover Range Rover - The original luxury SUV and a real off road vehicle; this tradition puts it in "Undecided" instead of "Pans".
Mercedes-Benz G500 - Now if they had a G230D for a reasonable price, or even a G300D for a mildly unreasonable price, they would be "Picks". But not a 5.0L V-8, and certainly not for 73 grand!
Mitsubishi Montero
Suzuki XL-7
Toyota Sequoia
Minivans - Just station wagons, really, and most are front drive:
Chevrolet Venture/Pontiac Montana/Oldsmobile Silhouette
Chrysler Town & Country (too upscale for my taste)
Ford Windstar
Honda Odyssey
Kia Sedona
Mazda MPV - for some unknown reason I am leaning toward "Picks" for this one...
Nissan Quest/Mercury Villager
Toyota Sienna
Other vehicles I'm not sure about::
Chevrolet Blazer - On my "Pans" list for years, but I'm not sure now... more economical, albeit less spacious, alternative to the Astro...
Dodge Dakota - Too big to be frugal and too small to really haul.
Land Rover Freelander - not exactly car-based, and I'm too biased toward Land Rover to say that it sucks unless I have absolute proof...
Mitsubishi Montero Sport - Just as pro-Land Rover bias keeps Freelander from being a "Pan", anti-Mitsubishi bias keeps the Montero Sport from being a "Pick". Quite irrational, really...
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 20 of 34: Sam Blob (AlFor) * Sun, Jun 23, 2002 (13:41) * 1 lines
groan... why do I bother with the formatting... I know why, because it's good when it's done properly... and it would be good if it could be made good by the use of previews and/or after-post editing...
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 21 of 34: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Mon, Jun 24, 2002 (06:45) * 1 lines
I can't make up my mind about the PT Cruiser, is it a minivan that didn't grow up? Or is it a retro car that isn't fully retro? It looks like a vehicle in search of an identity to me.
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 22 of 34: Sam Blob (AlFor) * Mon, Jun 24, 2002 (18:48) * 3 lines
The only things missing from the PT Cruiser are a BIG V-8 where the current engine and transaxle are, a drive shaft, and a BIG DIFFERENTIAL AND DRIVE AXLE between the rear wheels!
It's a styling exercise on a front-drive platform and I should hate it but I CAN'T! It's a station wagon for people with style!!!
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 23 of 34: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Tue, Jun 25, 2002 (09:31) * 1 lines
It's too small!
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 24 of 34: Sam Blob (AlFor) * Tue, Jun 25, 2002 (17:20) * 1 lines
For what?
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 25 of 34: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Wed, Jun 26, 2002 (06:35) * 2 lines
It just looks small, undersized. wee.
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 26 of 34: Sam Blob (AlFor) * Thu, Jun 27, 2002 (18:47) * 1 lines
O.K., how does it compare with your GLC?
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 27 of 34: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Fri, Jun 28, 2002 (06:39) * 1 lines
GLC?
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 28 of 34: Sam Blob (AlFor) * Fri, Jun 28, 2002 (07:37) * 6 lines
"Topic 23 of 37 [cars]: Mazda Sports Cars (& their rivals)
Response 55 of 57: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Wed, Jun 12, 2002 (12:35) * 1 lines
"1984. Mazda GLC 4 door Sedan. LX. Woo woo."
Yes, GLC.
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 29 of 34: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Fri, Jun 28, 2002 (07:47) * 1 lines
I'm using it as a shuttle car. I drive it around the block every now and then. Yesterday, when faced with the choice of driving or walking about 15 blocks, I chose to walk. I should fire it up today and run it around a little. It's my bic lighter car.
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 30 of 34: Sam Blob (AlFor) * Fri, Jun 28, 2002 (21:46) * 3 lines
Maybe drive to Galveston?
(I assume that Galveston is a long way away; Austin is in central Texas, isn't it? Therefore nowhere near the coast at all...)
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 31 of 34: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Sat, Jun 29, 2002 (00:22) * 1 lines
Too far for that car!
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 32 of 34: Sam Blob (AlFor) * Sat, Jul 5, 2003 (03:56) * 7 lines
Funny anti-SUV site:
http://poseur.4x4.org/
and the pro-SUV message board it links to:
http://www.voy.com/14532/
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 33 of 34: Paul Terry Walhus (terry) * Sun, Jul 6, 2003 (18:36) * 3 lines
They're driving antiSUV traffic to a proSUV site.
How about a ride in a stretch Hummer, Sam?
Topic 24 of 39 [cars]: Land Bruisers
Response 34 of 34: Sam Blob (AlFor) * Sat, Jul 12, 2003 (05:08) * 1 lines
Erm... no, thanks. (Why would anyone stretch a Hummer? BLEAH! )
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